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  3. Mar-a-Lago raided

Mar-a-Lago raided

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  • J Jolly
    15 Aug 2022, 20:58

    @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    @Jolly

    Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

    Perhaps you do not understand the question.

    Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

    Show us explicitly where he cannot.

    R Offline
    R Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:28 last edited by Renauda
    #341

    @Jolly

    Show us explicitly where he cannot.

    No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

    But at least you now understand the question. That is a step forward.

    Elbows up!

    J 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 21:30
    • R Renauda
      15 Aug 2022, 21:28

      @Jolly

      Show us explicitly where he cannot.

      No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

      But at least you now understand the question. That is a step forward.

      J Offline
      J Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:30 last edited by
      #342

      @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      @Jolly

      Show us explicitly where he cannot.

      No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

      But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

      I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

      If you think POTUS spends his day signing releases for documents and carefully hiding stuff in his desk, you have a different view of a working Oval Office than I do.

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      R 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 21:33
      • J jon-nyc
        15 Aug 2022, 19:41

        Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

        Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2009”

        G Offline
        G Offline
        George K
        wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:31 last edited by
        #343

        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

        Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

        Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

        Exactly. Show us the paper and policy. Not just your say-so.

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • J Jolly
          15 Aug 2022, 21:30

          @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          @Jolly

          Show us explicitly where he cannot.

          No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

          But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

          I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

          If you think POTUS spends his day signing releases for documents and carefully hiding stuff in his desk, you have a different view of a working Oval Office than I do.

          R Offline
          R Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:33 last edited by
          #344

          @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          @Jolly

          Show us explicitly where he cannot.

          No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

          But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

          I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

          Actually you have not. Sorry.

          Elbows up!

          J 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 21:39
          • R Renauda
            15 Aug 2022, 21:33

            @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            @Jolly

            Show us explicitly where he cannot.

            No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

            But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

            I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

            Actually you have not. Sorry.

            J Offline
            J Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:39 last edited by
            #345

            @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            @Jolly

            Show us explicitly where he cannot.

            No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

            But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

            I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

            Actually you have not. Sorry.

            I think I have. Sorry.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            R 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 21:42
            • J Jolly
              15 Aug 2022, 21:39

              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Jolly

              Show us explicitly where he cannot.

              No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

              But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

              I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

              Actually you have not. Sorry.

              I think I have. Sorry.

              R Offline
              R Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:42 last edited by Renauda
              #346

              @Jolly

              Well, think harder. You made up a story.

              Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

              Elbows up!

              J 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 21:49
              • R Renauda
                15 Aug 2022, 21:42

                @Jolly

                Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                J Offline
                J Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:49 last edited by
                #347

                @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                @Jolly

                Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                No, I doubt you are.

                Now, is this the part of the thread where I say that you're an obtuse SOB, or would you like to start the festivities?

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                R 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 21:57
                • J Jolly
                  15 Aug 2022, 21:49

                  @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  @Jolly

                  Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                  Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                  No, I doubt you are.

                  Now, is this the part of the thread where I say that you're an obtuse SOB, or would you like to start the festivities?

                  R Offline
                  R Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 21:57 last edited by Renauda
                  #348

                  @Jolly

                  I take it then you have nothing more to say other than up make up stories. Several others here have shown you to be incorrect or, at least, inaccurate as well on this topic. I rest my argument.

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • J Offline
                    J Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:04 last edited by
                    #349

                    Then, R.I.P.

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • J Jolly
                      15 Aug 2022, 21:17

                      @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                      Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                      Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                      Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                      As an example...President John Doe is sitting at the Resolute Desk and a widget-expert professor without a TS clearance is brought in to brief the President. The President reaches onto the desk and hands the prof a TS document on a heretofore unknown widget created by DARPA, and asks him to comment.

                      By his actions, the President has just declassified that document.

                      I think a lot of this boils down as to when Trump did or did not declassify the documents. I also think it makes a difference what documents they are.

                      And just as an aside, Trump now says he thinks they took his passport. If so, that's just chickenshit, and speaks volumes.

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:07 last edited by jon-nyc
                      #350

                      @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                      @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                      Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                      Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                      Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                      The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                      "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                      -Cormac McCarthy

                      G J 2 Replies Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 22:10
                      • J jon-nyc
                        15 Aug 2022, 22:07

                        @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                        Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                        Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                        Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                        The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                        G Offline
                        G Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:10 last edited by
                        #351

                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                        The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                        If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                        And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        D C 3 Replies Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 22:36
                        • G George K
                          15 Aug 2022, 22:10

                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                          The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                          If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                          And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                          D Offline
                          D Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:36 last edited by
                          #352

                          @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                          If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                          To be fair, he probably did learn it very well in the last 50-odd years, but being POTUS isn't the same as being whatever the polite term is for somebody like Trump in the real estate business.

                          I was only joking

                          R 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 22:58
                          • G George K
                            15 Aug 2022, 22:10

                            @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                            If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                            And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                            D Offline
                            D Offline
                            Doctor Phibes
                            wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:39 last edited by
                            #353

                            @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                            His crack legal team?

                            87cdd687-7f6b-4099-a601-d8aab33cd994-image.png

                            I was only joking

                            G 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 22:46
                            • D Doctor Phibes
                              15 Aug 2022, 22:39

                              @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                              His crack legal team?

                              87cdd687-7f6b-4099-a601-d8aab33cd994-image.png

                              G Offline
                              G Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:46 last edited by
                              #354

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              His crack legal team?

                              image.png

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • D Offline
                                D Offline
                                Doctor Phibes
                                wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:48 last edited by
                                #355

                                Has he joined Trump's team, now?

                                That's a real step up (for both groups)!

                                I was only joking

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • D Doctor Phibes
                                  15 Aug 2022, 22:36

                                  @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                  To be fair, he probably did learn it very well in the last 50-odd years, but being POTUS isn't the same as being whatever the polite term is for somebody like Trump in the real estate business.

                                  R Offline
                                  R Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 22:58 last edited by
                                  #356

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                  To be fair, he probably did learn it very well in the last 50-odd years, but being POTUS isn't the same as being whatever the polite term is for somebody like Trump in the real estate business.

                                  I think the word is, tycoon. It has a somewhat more cache and chic connotation than sales weasel and not nearly as vulgar as shyster.

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • G George K
                                    15 Aug 2022, 22:10

                                    @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                    The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                                    If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                    And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                    C Offline
                                    C Offline
                                    Catseye3
                                    wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 23:26 last edited by
                                    #357

                                    @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                    And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                    I'd venture to say his legal team(s) have had plenty of experience in telling him things. He listens only if he perceives listening is in his own best (short term) interests. Otherwise, he walks out of the room.

                                    Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                    G 1 Reply Last reply 15 Aug 2022, 23:40
                                    • C Catseye3
                                      15 Aug 2022, 23:26

                                      @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                      And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                      I'd venture to say his legal team(s) have had plenty of experience in telling him things. He listens only if he perceives listening is in his own best (short term) interests. Otherwise, he walks out of the room.

                                      G Offline
                                      G Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on 15 Aug 2022, 23:40 last edited by
                                      #358

                                      @Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                      I'd venture to say his legal team(s) have had plenty of experience in telling him things. He listens only if he perceives listening is in his own best (short term) interests. Otherwise, he walks out of the room.

                                      You're Kraken me up!

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • G Offline
                                        G Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on 16 Aug 2022, 00:16 last edited by
                                        #359

                                        Passports seized?

                                        alt text

                                        Yes, they were.

                                        They were returned.

                                        So, why were they taken? Flight risk., LOL?

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        C 1 Reply Last reply 16 Aug 2022, 00:30
                                        • HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on 16 Aug 2022, 00:17 last edited by
                                          #360

                                          Sounds like identity theft.

                                          Education is extremely important.

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