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  3. Mar-a-Lago raided

Mar-a-Lago raided

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  • JollyJ Jolly

    @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    @Jolly

    Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

    Perhaps you do not understand the question.

    Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

    Show us explicitly where he cannot.

    Catseye3C Offline
    Catseye3C Offline
    Catseye3
    wrote on last edited by
    #339

    @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

    Show us explicitly where he cannot.

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
    "Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.

    Follow-through is required.

    "He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."

    Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • Catseye3C Catseye3

      @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

      Show us explicitly where he cannot.

      https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
      "Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.

      Follow-through is required.

      "He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."

      JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #340

      @Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

      Show us explicitly where he cannot.

      https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
      "Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.

      Follow-through is required.

      "He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."

      That's an opinion piece.

      You know what they say about opinions...

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Jolly

        @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

        @Jolly

        Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

        Perhaps you do not understand the question.

        Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

        Show us explicitly where he cannot.

        RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by Renauda
        #341

        @Jolly

        Show us explicitly where he cannot.

        No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

        But at least you now understand the question. That is a step forward.

        Elbows up!

        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Renauda

          @Jolly

          Show us explicitly where he cannot.

          No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

          But at least you now understand the question. That is a step forward.

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #342

          @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          @Jolly

          Show us explicitly where he cannot.

          No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

          But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

          I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

          If you think POTUS spends his day signing releases for documents and carefully hiding stuff in his desk, you have a different view of a working Oval Office than I do.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

            Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2009”

            George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #343

            @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

            Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

            Exactly. Show us the paper and policy. Not just your say-so.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Jolly

              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Jolly

              Show us explicitly where he cannot.

              No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

              But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

              I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

              If you think POTUS spends his day signing releases for documents and carefully hiding stuff in his desk, you have a different view of a working Oval Office than I do.

              RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by
              #344

              @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Jolly

              Show us explicitly where he cannot.

              No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

              But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

              I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

              Actually you have not. Sorry.

              Elbows up!

              JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
              • RenaudaR Renauda

                @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                @Jolly

                Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                Actually you have not. Sorry.

                JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #345

                @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                @Jolly

                Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                Actually you have not. Sorry.

                I think I have. Sorry.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Jolly

                  @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  @Jolly

                  Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                  No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                  But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                  I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                  Actually you have not. Sorry.

                  I think I have. Sorry.

                  RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                  #346

                  @Jolly

                  Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                  Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                  Elbows up!

                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • RenaudaR Renauda

                    @Jolly

                    Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                    Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #347

                    @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                    @Jolly

                    Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                    Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                    No, I doubt you are.

                    Now, is this the part of the thread where I say that you're an obtuse SOB, or would you like to start the festivities?

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                      @Jolly

                      Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                      Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                      No, I doubt you are.

                      Now, is this the part of the thread where I say that you're an obtuse SOB, or would you like to start the festivities?

                      RenaudaR Offline
                      RenaudaR Offline
                      Renauda
                      wrote on last edited by Renauda
                      #348

                      @Jolly

                      I take it then you have nothing more to say other than up make up stories. Several others here have shown you to be incorrect or, at least, inaccurate as well on this topic. I rest my argument.

                      Elbows up!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Offline
                        JollyJ Offline
                        Jolly
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #349

                        Then, R.I.P.

                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Jolly

                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                          Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                          Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                          Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                          As an example...President John Doe is sitting at the Resolute Desk and a widget-expert professor without a TS clearance is brought in to brief the President. The President reaches onto the desk and hands the prof a TS document on a heretofore unknown widget created by DARPA, and asks him to comment.

                          By his actions, the President has just declassified that document.

                          I think a lot of this boils down as to when Trump did or did not declassify the documents. I also think it makes a difference what documents they are.

                          And just as an aside, Trump now says he thinks they took his passport. If so, that's just chickenshit, and speaks volumes.

                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                          #350

                          @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                          Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                          Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                          Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                          The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          George KG JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                            Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                            Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                            The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #351

                            @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                            If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                            And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            Doctor PhibesD Catseye3C 3 Replies Last reply
                            • George KG George K

                              @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                              If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                              And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                              Doctor PhibesD Online
                              Doctor PhibesD Online
                              Doctor Phibes
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #352

                              @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                              To be fair, he probably did learn it very well in the last 50-odd years, but being POTUS isn't the same as being whatever the polite term is for somebody like Trump in the real estate business.

                              I was only joking

                              RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                              • George KG George K

                                @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                                If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                Doctor PhibesD Online
                                Doctor PhibesD Online
                                Doctor Phibes
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #353

                                @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                His crack legal team?

                                87cdd687-7f6b-4099-a601-d8aab33cd994-image.png

                                I was only joking

                                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                  @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                  His crack legal team?

                                  87cdd687-7f6b-4099-a601-d8aab33cd994-image.png

                                  George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #354

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  His crack legal team?

                                  image.png

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Online
                                    Doctor PhibesD Online
                                    Doctor Phibes
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #355

                                    Has he joined Trump's team, now?

                                    That's a real step up (for both groups)!

                                    I was only joking

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                      @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                      If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                      To be fair, he probably did learn it very well in the last 50-odd years, but being POTUS isn't the same as being whatever the polite term is for somebody like Trump in the real estate business.

                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #356

                                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                      @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                      If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                      To be fair, he probably did learn it very well in the last 50-odd years, but being POTUS isn't the same as being whatever the polite term is for somebody like Trump in the real estate business.

                                      I think the word is, tycoon. It has a somewhat more cache and chic connotation than sales weasel and not nearly as vulgar as shyster.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG George K

                                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                                        If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                        And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #357

                                        @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                        I'd venture to say his legal team(s) have had plenty of experience in telling him things. He listens only if he perceives listening is in his own best (short term) interests. Otherwise, he walks out of the room.

                                        Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Catseye3C Catseye3

                                          @George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                          I'd venture to say his legal team(s) have had plenty of experience in telling him things. He listens only if he perceives listening is in his own best (short term) interests. Otherwise, he walks out of the room.

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #358

                                          @Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          I'd venture to say his legal team(s) have had plenty of experience in telling him things. He listens only if he perceives listening is in his own best (short term) interests. Otherwise, he walks out of the room.

                                          You're Kraken me up!

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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