Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Mar-a-Lago raided

Mar-a-Lago raided

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
780 Posts 20 Posters 39.6k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • RenaudaR Renauda

    @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    The President may set whatever procedure he wants, if I read that correctly.

    Really now? I suggest you are not reading that ruling in its entirety to arrive at an accurate understanding. Prove me wrong.

    JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #332

    @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    The President may set whatever procedure he wants, if I read that correctly.

    Really now? I suggest you are not reading that ruling in its entirety to arrive at an accurate understanding. Prove me wrong.

    Let's go back to 2009 and Obama's EO, which exempts the POTUS and VP:

    https://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/cnsi-eo.html

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Jolly

      @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      The President may set whatever procedure he wants, if I read that correctly.

      Really now? I suggest you are not reading that ruling in its entirety to arrive at an accurate understanding. Prove me wrong.

      Let's go back to 2009 and Obama's EO, which exempts the POTUS and VP:

      https://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/cnsi-eo.html

      RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on last edited by Renauda
      #333

      @Jolly

      Let's go back to 2009 and Obama's EO, which exempts the POTUS and VP

      Here, knock yourself out:

      executive order 13526 exemption president vice president

      For simplicity sake you might also want to try to prove your statement by going here:

      https://www.justice.gov/oip/page/file/1324436/download

      Don’t think you’ll find it

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #334

        Again, these lay out policies and procedures for people who are below the office of the Chief Executive.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Jolly

          Again, these lay out policies and procedures for people who are below the office of the Chief Executive.

          RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by Renauda
          #335

          @Jolly

          Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

          Perhaps you do not understand the question.

          Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

          Elbows up!

          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #336

            Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

            Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2009”

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            JollyJ George KG 2 Replies Last reply
            • RenaudaR Renauda

              @Jolly

              Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

              Perhaps you do not understand the question.

              Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

              JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #337

              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Jolly

              Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

              Perhaps you do not understand the question.

              Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

              Show us explicitly where he cannot.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              Catseye3C RenaudaR 2 Replies Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2009”

                JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #338

                @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                As an example...President John Doe is sitting at the Resolute Desk and a widget-expert professor without a TS clearance is brought in to brief the President. The President reaches onto the desk and hands the prof a TS document on a heretofore unknown widget created by DARPA, and asks him to comment.

                By his actions, the President has just declassified that document.

                I think a lot of this boils down as to when Trump did or did not declassify the documents. I also think it makes a difference what documents they are.

                And just as an aside, Trump now says he thinks they took his passport. If so, that's just chickenshit, and speaks volumes.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Jolly

                  @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  @Jolly

                  Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

                  Perhaps you do not understand the question.

                  Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

                  Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                  Catseye3C Offline
                  Catseye3C Offline
                  Catseye3
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #339

                  @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

                  Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                  https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
                  "Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.

                  Follow-through is required.

                  "He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."

                  Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Catseye3C Catseye3

                    @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                    Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

                    Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                    https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
                    "Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.

                    Follow-through is required.

                    "He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #340

                    @Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                    @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                    Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

                    Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                    https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/11/could-trump-argue-declassified-documents/
                    "Merely proclaiming a document or group of documents declassified and doing nothing more would not suffice," Bradley Moss, a Washington, D.C.-based lawyer who works on national security cases, told PolitiFact.

                    Follow-through is required.

                    "He had to identify the specific documents he was declassifying, he needed to memorialize the order in writing for bureaucratic and historical purposes, and he needed to have staff physically modify the classification markings on the documents themselves," Moss said. "Until that was done, the documents, per the security classification procedures, still have to be handled, transmitted and stored as if they were classified."

                    That's an opinion piece.

                    You know what they say about opinions...

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                      @Jolly

                      Yes, but the discussion is about the Chief Executive not others in or below his office.

                      Perhaps you do not understand the question.

                      Let me put to you more simply: Show us where it explicitly states the POTUS can declassify T.S. documents without telling anyone or leaving any sort of paper trail. I suggest you cannot.

                      Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                      RenaudaR Offline
                      RenaudaR Offline
                      Renauda
                      wrote on last edited by Renauda
                      #341

                      @Jolly

                      Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                      No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                      But at least you now understand the question. That is a step forward.

                      Elbows up!

                      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Renauda

                        @Jolly

                        Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                        No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                        But at least you now understand the question. That is a step forward.

                        JollyJ Offline
                        JollyJ Offline
                        Jolly
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #342

                        @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                        @Jolly

                        Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                        No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                        But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                        I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                        If you think POTUS spends his day signing releases for documents and carefully hiding stuff in his desk, you have a different view of a working Oval Office than I do.

                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                          Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2009”

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #343

                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                          Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                          Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                          Exactly. Show us the paper and policy. Not just your say-so.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Jolly

                            @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            @Jolly

                            Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                            No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                            But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                            I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                            If you think POTUS spends his day signing releases for documents and carefully hiding stuff in his desk, you have a different view of a working Oval Office than I do.

                            RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #344

                            @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                            @Jolly

                            Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                            No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                            But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                            I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                            Actually you have not. Sorry.

                            Elbows up!

                            JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Renauda

                              @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              @Jolly

                              Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                              No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                              But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                              I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                              Actually you have not. Sorry.

                              JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #345

                              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                              @Jolly

                              Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                              No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                              But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                              I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                              Actually you have not. Sorry.

                              I think I have. Sorry.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Jolly

                                @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                @Jolly

                                Show us explicitly where he cannot.

                                No, the onus is on you to show us that he can.

                                But at least you now understand the question. That is step forward.

                                I've already showed where he can. I've even offered a simple example.

                                Actually you have not. Sorry.

                                I think I have. Sorry.

                                RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                #346

                                @Jolly

                                Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                                Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                                Elbows up!

                                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                • RenaudaR Renauda

                                  @Jolly

                                  Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                                  Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #347

                                  @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  @Jolly

                                  Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                                  Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                                  No, I doubt you are.

                                  Now, is this the part of the thread where I say that you're an obtuse SOB, or would you like to start the festivities?

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Jolly

                                    @Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                    @Jolly

                                    Well, think harder. You made up a story.

                                    Wish I could say, sorry because I’m not in the least bit, sorry.

                                    No, I doubt you are.

                                    Now, is this the part of the thread where I say that you're an obtuse SOB, or would you like to start the festivities?

                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                    #348

                                    @Jolly

                                    I take it then you have nothing more to say other than up make up stories. Several others here have shown you to be incorrect or, at least, inaccurate as well on this topic. I rest my argument.

                                    Elbows up!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #349

                                      Then, R.I.P.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Jolly

                                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                                        Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                                        Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                                        As an example...President John Doe is sitting at the Resolute Desk and a widget-expert professor without a TS clearance is brought in to brief the President. The President reaches onto the desk and hands the prof a TS document on a heretofore unknown widget created by DARPA, and asks him to comment.

                                        By his actions, the President has just declassified that document.

                                        I think a lot of this boils down as to when Trump did or did not declassify the documents. I also think it makes a difference what documents they are.

                                        And just as an aside, Trump now says he thinks they took his passport. If so, that's just chickenshit, and speaks volumes.

                                        jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                        #350

                                        @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                                        Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                                        Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                                        The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        George KG JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          Trump’s current argument seems untenable. If no documentation were required that would give any former POTUS the ability to declassify things for the rest of his life.

                                          Obama could publish the detailed schematics of the Virginia class nuclear fast attack submarines and say “oh, I declassified these in 2007”

                                          Nope, it only gives POTUS the ability to declassify things while he is in office.

                                          The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #351

                                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          The point is if the decision doesn’t need to be documented there’s be nothing stopping them from doing an ex-post claim. Like Trump is probably doing.

                                          If you didn't document it, it didn't happen. You'd think Trump would have learned that after 4 years.

                                          And, in the same vein, you'd think that his legal team would have told him that.

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          Doctor PhibesD Catseye3C 3 Replies Last reply
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups