Trump himself consents to transition
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Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:36 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
Joe Biden or Barack Obama have never, as far as I am aware, suggested that people should commit crimes, or riot, or behave violently.
Donald Trump has very clearly lied about the election result being fraudulent, and has also made oh-so-funny suggestions regarding how protesters should be treated.
In my previous post I was going to say "and all the while, their supporters play games of whataboutism", but didn't. Clearly I didn't need to bother.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:39 last edited by
Whataboutism is a great excuse for those who just choose to hate everything. Congratulations, you can accuse every part of every discussion of whataboutism. But actually whataboutism is how ideas and opinions are refined. There's nothing inherently wrong with whataboutism. it would be difficult to think about other people and how they think, without it.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:40 last edited by Doctor Phibes
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:40 last edited by jon-nyc
This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:41 last edited by
And again, to take no personal responsibility for the floyd riots is disingenuous for anybody who enjoys expressing righteous outrage every time a narrative is created around how awful the lives of minorities are. When the narrative is clearly disingenuous to begin with.
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This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:41 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
Right, it's just a Trump-like figure. Not the electors that tried to steal the election from him in 2016.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:42 last edited by
Dude - do some googling. More electors abandoned Hillary than abandoned Trump.
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If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:43 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I don't expect things to get better. But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:44 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Dude - do some googling. More electors abandoned Hillary than abandoned Trump.
What was their motivation?
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:44 last edited by
Attention seeking, I would presume.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I don't expect things to get better. But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:44 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:45 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Attention seeking, I would presume.
Do some googling.
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@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:46 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
Yes I get the nihilism. But I also get the absence of solutions.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:49 last edited by
How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
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How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:53 last edited by@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
That's not what I said.
I'm fucking done with this shit.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:56 last edited by
Your choice.
Enjoy your day.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 19:06 last edited by
@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Your choice.
Enjoy your dayNo, you don't get to pull that holier-than-thou shit after posting one of your off-world responses to something somebody said. I went back and reviewed the thread, and Phibes said nothing like what you accused him of.
And what you meant to say is "defies belief", not begs belief. At least get your distortions right.
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@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Your choice.
Enjoy your dayNo, you don't get to pull that holier-than-thou shit after posting one of your off-world responses to something somebody said. I went back and reviewed the thread, and Phibes said nothing like what you accused him of.
And what you meant to say is "defies belief", not begs belief. At least get your distortions right.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 19:07 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Trump himself consents to transition:
@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Your choice.
Enjoy your dayNo, you don't get to pull that holier-than-thou shit after posting one of your off-world responses to something somebody said. I went back and reviewed the thread, and Phibes said nothing like what you accused him of.
And what you meant to say is "defies belief", not begs belief. At least get your distortions right.
Put the crack pipe down and back away from the keyboard, before you launch yourself into another miasma.
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@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Your choice.
Enjoy your dayNo, you don't get to pull that holier-than-thou shit after posting one of your off-world responses to something somebody said. I went back and reviewed the thread, and Phibes said nothing like what you accused him of.
And what you meant to say is "defies belief", not begs belief. At least get your distortions right.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 19:13 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Trump himself consents to transition:
@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Your choice.
Enjoy your dayNo, you don't get to pull that holier-than-thou shit after posting one of your off-world responses to something somebody said. I went back and reviewed the thread, and Phibes said nothing like what you accused him of.
Somewhere in the thought soup was my whataboutism with the hatred of Trump vs the hatred of the riots. It's a valid whataboutism, and one that those who identify as on the left continue to be reluctant, or incapable, to own.
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wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 19:15 last edited by
Not the only one, of course. I mean they watched the NYT essay, and subsequent book, from the adults in the white house, actively subverting Trump, and said nothing. These are not principled or courageous people, these are primates who can't see past the overwhelming desire to personally win.
