Trump himself consents to transition
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:21 last edited by
For me, the concern is the general erosion of belief in democratic principles. A group of people willing to riot, or so angry about perceived injustice that they feel they have no other recourse, another group willing to waste months on an investigation that was clearly going nowhere, and then a President who is unwilling to accept the results of a general election, and who is more than happy to fire up his supporters so that they also don't believe that the next incumbent has a right to the position.
And the internet really isn't helping.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:27 last edited by
Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
-
No, you had what some electors did to try to win the election for Hillary in 2016 in your back pocket but never played the card because you enjoyed the smug knowledge.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:28 last edited by@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
No, you had what some electors did to try to win the election for Hillary in 2016 in your back pocket but never played the card because you enjoyed the smug knowledge.
Nope. I was very explicit. Invalidate whole classes of votes and enlist legislatures to appoint competing electors. I even referenced the precedent of 1876.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:30 last edited by
And I was explicit that if loopholes exist, they need to be closed. I think we're all convinced at this point that the security of the system is paramount. Not the personalities in alleged charge.
-
Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:36 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
Joe Biden or Barack Obama have never, as far as I am aware, suggested that people should commit crimes, or riot, or behave violently.
Donald Trump has very clearly lied about the election result being fraudulent, and has also made oh-so-funny suggestions regarding how protesters should be treated.
In my previous post I was going to say "and all the while, their supporters play games of whataboutism", but didn't. Clearly I didn't need to bother.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:39 last edited by
Whataboutism is a great excuse for those who just choose to hate everything. Congratulations, you can accuse every part of every discussion of whataboutism. But actually whataboutism is how ideas and opinions are refined. There's nothing inherently wrong with whataboutism. it would be difficult to think about other people and how they think, without it.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:40 last edited by Doctor Phibes
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:40 last edited by jon-nyc
This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:41 last edited by
And again, to take no personal responsibility for the floyd riots is disingenuous for anybody who enjoys expressing righteous outrage every time a narrative is created around how awful the lives of minorities are. When the narrative is clearly disingenuous to begin with.
-
This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:41 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
Right, it's just a Trump-like figure. Not the electors that tried to steal the election from him in 2016.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:42 last edited by
Dude - do some googling. More electors abandoned Hillary than abandoned Trump.
-
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:43 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I don't expect things to get better. But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:44 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Dude - do some googling. More electors abandoned Hillary than abandoned Trump.
What was their motivation?
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:44 last edited by
Attention seeking, I would presume.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I don't expect things to get better. But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:44 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:45 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Attention seeking, I would presume.
Do some googling.
-
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:46 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
Yes I get the nihilism. But I also get the absence of solutions.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:49 last edited by
How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
-
How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:53 last edited by@Jolly said in Trump himself consents to transition:
How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
That's not what I said.
I'm fucking done with this shit.
-
wrote on 24 Nov 2020, 18:56 last edited by
Your choice.
Enjoy your day.
