Trump himself consents to transition
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@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Yes my prediction has always been that he'll leave office just like all the others always have after losing an election, and there will be some heat but no light regarding not conceding. TDS makes this heat meaningful to some, but it is not meaningful to the rest of us.
TDS makes the heat meaningful to some.
But Horace is that really your position? Am I deranged for thinking that the US president claiming an election is rigged and a seemingly significant fraction of the population believing him is a meaningful (and concerning) thing?
@Moonbat said in Trump himself consents to transition:
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Yes my prediction has always been that he'll leave office just like all the others always have after losing an election, and there will be some heat but no light regarding not conceding. TDS makes this heat meaningful to some, but it is not meaningful to the rest of us.
TDS makes the heat meaningful to some.
But Horace is that really your position? Am I deranged for thinking that the US president claiming an election is rigged and a seemingly significant fraction of the population believing him is a meaningful (and concerning) thing?
It was certainly a predictable thing based on Trump's personality. I don't think I ever claimed he wouldn't do it. I always claimed it would be heat no light. You can be concerned with it, that's fine. We all weigh our concerns differently. I was rather concerned with the floyd protests, but the left seemed not to be, at all. So let's try to play fair.
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For me, the concern is the general erosion of belief in democratic principles. A group of people willing to riot, or so angry about perceived injustice that they feel they have no other recourse, another group willing to waste months on an investigation that was clearly going nowhere, and then a President who is unwilling to accept the results of a general election, and who is more than happy to fire up his supporters so that they also don't believe that the next incumbent has a right to the position.
And the internet really isn't helping.
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No, you had what some electors did to try to win the election for Hillary in 2016 in your back pocket but never played the card because you enjoyed the smug knowledge.
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
No, you had what some electors did to try to win the election for Hillary in 2016 in your back pocket but never played the card because you enjoyed the smug knowledge.
Nope. I was very explicit. Invalidate whole classes of votes and enlist legislatures to appoint competing electors. I even referenced the precedent of 1876.
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Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
Trump "firing up his supporters" is qualitatively different than the left firing up their supporters. We are watching the proof. It would be good if we could all admit to it.
Joe Biden or Barack Obama have never, as far as I am aware, suggested that people should commit crimes, or riot, or behave violently.
Donald Trump has very clearly lied about the election result being fraudulent, and has also made oh-so-funny suggestions regarding how protesters should be treated.
In my previous post I was going to say "and all the while, their supporters play games of whataboutism", but didn't. Clearly I didn't need to bother.
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Whataboutism is a great excuse for those who just choose to hate everything. Congratulations, you can accuse every part of every discussion of whataboutism. But actually whataboutism is how ideas and opinions are refined. There's nothing inherently wrong with whataboutism. it would be difficult to think about other people and how they think, without it.
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If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I was only joking
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This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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And again, to take no personal responsibility for the floyd riots is disingenuous for anybody who enjoys expressing righteous outrage every time a narrative is created around how awful the lives of minorities are. When the narrative is clearly disingenuous to begin with.
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This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
@jon-nyc said in Trump himself consents to transition:
This was my concern expressed 5.5 months ago.
What saved us is the answer to my last question was 'yes'. Other institutions saved us from Trumps attempt to subvert our democracy. Specifically, state courts and the conscience of Michigan's GOP leaders. In absence of the latter it's highly likely that Michigan's state courts would have protected us. This time.
But yes, I agree with your point, @Horace. We need to make sure some other Trump-like figure couldn't do this again.
Right, it's just a Trump-like figure. Not the electors that tried to steal the election from him in 2016.
Education is extremely important.
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If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I don't expect things to get better. But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
Education is extremely important.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
If all we ever do is point the finger about how the other side are worse or as bad, how is anything ever going to get better?
I don't expect things to get better. But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
I was only joking
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@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump himself consents to transition:
@Horace said in Trump himself consents to transition:
But I won't say that whataboutism is inherently a bad mode of thinking.
How's it working out for us so far?
It's really simple. If we keep on doing what we're doing, we're just going to get more of what we've got.
Yes I get the nihilism. But I also get the absence of solutions.
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How anyone can equate looting, burning and killing with due process in a court of law begs belief...
