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The New Coffee Room

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  3. RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines

RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines

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  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

    @Horace said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

    I know nobody here bothered to listen to his confirmation hearings, but he bore little resemblance to an unhinged anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.

    That's quite possibly because he's crazy, but not an idiot.

    HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    @Doctor-Phibes said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

    @Horace said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

    I know nobody here bothered to listen to his confirmation hearings, but he bore little resemblance to an unhinged anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.

    That's quite possibly because he's crazy, but not an idiot.

    Someone connected enough to reality to fake it is not crazy, by definition. You'll have to go with nefarious.

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • CopperC Offline
      CopperC Offline
      Copper
      wrote on last edited by
      #11

      Question everything.

      Then question it again.

      That's what oversight does will do.

      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
      • CopperC Copper

        Question everything.

        Then question it again.

        That's what oversight does will do.

        HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        @Copper said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

        Question everything.

        Then question it again.

        That's what oversight does will do.

        You could chop off half of the FDA regulatory process for new drugs, and if RFK Jr proposed adding it back in, all the standard rhetoric against him would apply.

        Education is extremely important.

        CopperC JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
        • HoraceH Horace

          @Copper said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

          Question everything.

          Then question it again.

          That's what oversight does will do.

          You could chop off half of the FDA regulatory process for new drugs, and if RFK Jr proposed adding it back in, all the standard rhetoric against him would apply.

          CopperC Offline
          CopperC Offline
          Copper
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          @Horace said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

          standard rhetoric

          One magic day standard rhetoric will go the way of DEI.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Horace

            @Copper said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

            Question everything.

            Then question it again.

            That's what oversight does will do.

            You could chop off half of the FDA regulatory process for new drugs, and if RFK Jr proposed adding it back in, all the standard rhetoric against him would apply.

            JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #14

            @Horace said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

            @Copper said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

            Question everything.

            Then question it again.

            That's what oversight does will do.

            You could chop off half of the FDA regulatory process for new drugs, and if RFK Jr proposed adding it back in, all the standard rhetoric against him would apply.

            I know one thing...The actual exasperation at watching the EU run a diagnostic test for two years, compile a mountain of data and then the FDA tells the American medical diagnostic folks that they need to submit their own studies that we can sift through and maybe, just maybe, we'll approve the test in another 18 months is pure silliness.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              You’re FDA anecdotes are similar to mine and totally fly in the face of the idea that the FDA is ‘owned’ by pharma.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #16

                I think there are elements within the FDA that are way too chummy with Big Pharma.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                  My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                  89th8 Offline
                  89th8 Offline
                  89th
                  wrote on last edited by 89th
                  #17

                  @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                  My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                  Probably.

                  I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                  LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                  • 89th8 89th

                    @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                    My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                    Probably.

                    I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                    @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                    My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                    Probably.

                    I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                    You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                    The Brad

                    AxtremusA jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
                    • 89th8 Offline
                      89th8 Offline
                      89th
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      Fair enough. Honestly I’m still waiting for them to rebuild RFK stadium into RFK Jr stadium, sponsored by Trump Hotels. Will be ironic when they bring the thousands of polio kids into the makeshift hospital floor in the stadium grounds.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                        @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                        @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                        My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                        Probably.

                        I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                        You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                        AxtremusA Offline
                        AxtremusA Offline
                        Axtremus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #20

                        @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                        @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                        @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                        My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                        Probably.

                        I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                        You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                        A responsible White House would not nominate such a result of vaccine hesitancy. A responsible Senate majority would not confirm such a result of vaccine hesitancy.

                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Horace

                          @Rich said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                          If RFK is genuinely open to that outcome, that'd be great. Seeing some of his prior interviews, where some commonly accepted vaccines have "tons of studies" that show people end up living longer if they don't get it, seems difficult to overcome.

                          I guess this will be a learning opportunity for all of us. Maybe the oppositional framing of his backlog of interviews will turn out to be the truthiest framing, and maybe this is step one of RFK Jr managing to pull vaccines from the market. Or maybe the reviews will go well, and RFK will message their safety. Someone will learn something one way or another.

                          I know nobody here bothered to listen to his confirmation hearings, but he bore little resemblance to an unhinged anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.

                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                          taiwan_girl
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #21

                          @89th LOL

                          @Horace said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                          but he bore little resemblance to an unhinged anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.

                          From the little I did read about, I agree. Time will tell if he knew what he had to say to get confirmed vs. what he really believes.

                          It is hard (and kind of unusual) for someone in their 70's to make a 180 degree mind change. Easier to do when a person is in their 20's. In their 70's, not so much.

                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                            @89th LOL

                            @Horace said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                            but he bore little resemblance to an unhinged anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.

                            From the little I did read about, I agree. Time will tell if he knew what he had to say to get confirmed vs. what he really believes.

                            It is hard (and kind of unusual) for someone in their 70's to make a 180 degree mind change. Easier to do when a person is in their 20's. In their 70's, not so much.

                            HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #22

                            @taiwan_girl It's actually not very hard to seem very different from oppositional framings of one's character and opinions, as those framings are inevitably exaggerated to the point of breaking with recognizable reality.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                              @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                              @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                              My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                              Probably.

                              I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                              You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #23

                              @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                              @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                              @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                              My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                              Probably.

                              I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                              You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                              He’s both.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #24

                                Not even close.

                                The Brad

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                  #25

                                  You’re saying his star power and media attention don’t spread vaccine skepticism? Even at the margin?

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • RichR Rich

                                    If RFK is genuinely open to that outcome, that'd be great. Seeing some of his prior interviews, where some commonly accepted vaccines have "tons of studies" that show people end up living longer if they don't get it, seems difficult to overcome.

                                    I really hope he's able to have some positive effect on the general diet/exercise of the typical American....I'm not sure how to achieve that in a way that doesn't have the government overstepping its boundaries, but it'd be nice.

                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                    #26

                                    @Rich said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                    If RFK is genuinely open to that outcome, that'd be great.

                                    In general this is unlikely. Conspiratorial thinking is generally caused by psychological factors, not dispassionate reviews of evidence. He probably needs new brain wiring, not exposure to yet more evidence.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    RichR 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                      @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                                      Probably.

                                      I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                                      You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                                      A responsible White House would not nominate such a result of vaccine hesitancy. A responsible Senate majority would not confirm such a result of vaccine hesitancy.

                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #27

                                      @Axtremus said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                      My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                                      Probably.

                                      I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                                      You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                                      A responsible White House would not nominate such a result of vaccine hesitancy. A responsible Senate majority would not confirm such a result of vaccine hesitancy.

                                      A responsible White House would not have subjected American citizens to a breach of their rights over an experimental vaccine, with huge financial and social penalties.

                                      LuFin is correct. The RFK appointment is the direct result of the government lying to us.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        @Rich said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                        If RFK is genuinely open to that outcome, that'd be great.

                                        In general this is unlikely. Conspiratorial thinking is generally caused by psychological factors, not dispassionate reviews of evidence. He probably needs new brain wiring, not exposure to yet more evidence.

                                        RichR Online
                                        RichR Online
                                        Rich
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #28

                                        @jon-nyc said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                        @Rich said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                        If RFK is genuinely open to that outcome, that'd be great.

                                        In general this is unlikely. Conspiratorial thinking is generally caused by psychological factors, not dispassionate reviews of evidence. He probably needs new brain wiring, not exposure to yet more evidence.

                                        Simple: Just frame the evidence as an even better conspiracy. Instead of distributing a boring binder full of charts and graphs, they could put it in the form of a 149 page soft cover book for $9.99 at the supermarket: “Common sense things they don’t want you to know.”

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • JollyJ Jolly

                                          @Axtremus said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                          @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                          @89th said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                          @LuFins-Dad said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                          My bet? They find that the vaccines are safe and effective, though maybe not as safe and effective as advertised, and questions are raised not about the individual vaccines, but the vaccines in aggregate.

                                          Probably.

                                          I’d make a comment that we will see in 5-10 years if there is an increase in health issues related to vaccines that he placed doubts upon. But I also think if you’re a parent who places (or would place) such doubt in vaccines, that your opinion will not be swayed by the RFK doubts, so perhaps the die is already cast with effect of the anti-vaxxer population.

                                          You guys are reversing cause and effect. RFK JR is not the cause of the vaccine hesitancy, he’s the result…

                                          A responsible White House would not nominate such a result of vaccine hesitancy. A responsible Senate majority would not confirm such a result of vaccine hesitancy.

                                          A responsible White House would not have subjected American citizens to a breach of their rights over an experimental vaccine, with huge financial and social penalties.

                                          LuFin is correct. The RFK appointment is the direct result of the government lying to us.

                                          AxtremusA Offline
                                          AxtremusA Offline
                                          Axtremus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #29

                                          @Jolly said in RFK announced review panel for childhood vaccines:

                                          A responsible White House would not have subjected American citizens to a breach of their rights over an experimental vaccine, with huge financial and social penalties.

                                          There was no breach of rights.
                                          Tell me what rights were breached over what experimental vaccine if you believe it happened.

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