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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle time

Puzzle time

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  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Klaus and Mrs. Klaus went to a reception with ten other couples; each person shook hands with everyone he or she did not know. (Obviously, this took place before the COVID-19 epidemic.) Later, Klaus asked each of the other 21 partygoers with how many people they shook hands, and got a different answer every time.

    With how many people did Mrs Klaus shake hands?

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

      โ€œI am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.โ€ ~Winston S. Churchill

      JollyJ kluursK 2 Replies Last reply
      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Is 20 too obvious of an answer? Probably.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Mik

          Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @Mik said in Puzzle time:

          Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

          ๐Ÿ˜‚

          โ€œCry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!โ€

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terroristsโ€™ "due process". โ€” Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • KlausK Online
            KlausK Online
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by Klaus
            #5

            Question: Do you assume that the two persons in each couple know each other? ๐Ÿ™‚ Sounds like a rather unrealistic assumption, but I want to be sure.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • KlausK Online
              KlausK Online
              Klaus
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Also, does a person shake his own hand (since we can safely assume that everone knows him- or herself)?

              1 Reply Last reply
              • Doctor PhibesD Online
                Doctor PhibesD Online
                Doctor Phibes
                wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                #7

                Are these all university couples? If so, it would probably be quite hard for them to shake their own hands since they'll be so busy patting themselves on the back ๐Ÿ˜€

                I was only joking

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Klaus - they donโ€™t shake their own hand or that of their pairing.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

                    kluursK Offline
                    kluursK Offline
                    kluurs
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Mik said in Puzzle time:

                    Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

                    Klaus expressed the desire for "she" to be used as his her preferred pronoun? Makes sense, I just wanted to confirm.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • 89th8 Offline
                      89th8 Offline
                      89th
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      I think 20 must be too obvious, so if we take the "and got a difference answer every time" key phrase, that means even individuals WITHIN a couple have difference answers, which means we need to find all the various valid combos out there...leaving Mrs. Klaus shaking 10 hands.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • markM Offline
                        markM Offline
                        mark
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        It doesn't matter. They will all be dead from corona virus in a few weeks. ๐ŸŒก๐Ÿค’

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Canโ€™t just throw out a number, you have to say why

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            This one took me a little while.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • KlausK Online
                              KlausK Online
                              Klaus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              OK, let's see.

                              Since there are at most 20 people anyone can shake hands with, the different numbers of the other 21 partygoers must be the numbers from 0 to 20...

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • KlausK Online
                                KlausK Online
                                Klaus
                                wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                #15

                                What I don't understand is how Ms. Klaus plays any designated role in your puzzle that would allow me to distinguish her from anyone else.

                                Let's say we name the other 21 persons p-0 to p-20, whereby p-0 shook 0 hands, p-1 shook 1 hands etc.

                                Ms. Klaus could be any p-i without raising a contradiction.

                                So, let's say Ms. Klaus is p-7 and shook hands with 7 other people. If the puzzle is well-designed, that should lead to some kind of contradiction. But I don't see a contradiction.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • KlausK Online
                                  KlausK Online
                                  Klaus
                                  wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                  #16

                                  Hm, wait a minute.

                                  The guy with the 20 handshakes, p-20 must have shaken Ms. Klaus hand because he shook everyone's hand except his own partner's.

                                  So Ms. Klaus cannot be p-0. And p-20's partner must be p-0, by the same argument.

                                  Presumably this is the base case of some kind of inductive argument...

                                  But on the other hand, what prevents Ms. Klaus from being p-20? Hmm...

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • KlausK Online
                                    KlausK Online
                                    Klaus
                                    wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                    #17

                                    Ah, I think I got it.

                                    p-20 must have shaken my hand and hence cannot be Ms. Klaus.
                                    p-20's partner must have been p-0, who can hence also not be Ms. Klaus.

                                    p-19 must have shaken my hand, too, because he didn't shake p-0's hand, hence p-19 cannot be Ms. Klaus either.
                                    By the same argument as above, p-19's partner is p-1, who also cannot be Ms. Klaus.

                                    If we continue in the same way until p-11 and p-9, we see that the only number that is left is p-10.

                                    Ms. Klaus shook 10 hands.

                                    Correct?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      No, your first statement is not correct.

                                      Hint - first find out how many hands you shook.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • KlausK Online
                                        KlausK Online
                                        Klaus
                                        wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                        #19

                                        Oh, I see. I think my solution is still correct.

                                        p-20 must be married to p-0, ..., p-11 must be married to p-9.

                                        Hence my wife can't be any of p-0,...,p-9 or p-11 to p-20, because I'm not among the ones they are married to.

                                        That leaves only the p-10 spot for her.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • KlausK Online
                                          KlausK Online
                                          Klaus
                                          wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                          #20

                                          Here's the full solution.

                                          p-0 : {}
                                          p-1 : {p-20}
                                          p-2 : {p-19,p-20}
                                          ...
                                          p-9 : {p-12,....,p-20}
                                          p-10 = Ms. Klaus : {p-11,...,p-20}
                                          p-11 : {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-12, ..., p-20}
                                          p-12 : {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-9, p-11, p-13, ..., p-20}
                                          p-13 : {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-8, p-9, p-11,p-12, p-14, ..., p-20}
                                          ...
                                          p-20: {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-1, .., p-9, p-11,...,p-19}
                                          Mr. Klaus: {p-11,...,p-20}

                                          Is this not correct?

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