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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle time

Puzzle time

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  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Klaus and Mrs. Klaus went to a reception with ten other couples; each person shook hands with everyone he or she did not know. (Obviously, this took place before the COVID-19 epidemic.) Later, Klaus asked each of the other 21 partygoers with how many people they shook hands, and got a different answer every time.

    With how many people did Mrs Klaus shake hands?

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      JollyJ kluursK 2 Replies Last reply
      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Is 20 too obvious of an answer? Probably.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Mik

          Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @Mik said in Puzzle time:

          Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

          😂

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by Klaus
            #5

            Question: Do you assume that the two persons in each couple know each other? 🙂 Sounds like a rather unrealistic assumption, but I want to be sure.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • KlausK Offline
              KlausK Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Also, does a person shake his own hand (since we can safely assume that everone knows him- or herself)?

              1 Reply Last reply
              • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                Doctor Phibes
                wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                #7

                Are these all university couples? If so, it would probably be quite hard for them to shake their own hands since they'll be so busy patting themselves on the back 😀

                I was only joking

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Klaus - they don’t shake their own hand or that of their pairing.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

                    kluursK Offline
                    kluursK Offline
                    kluurs
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Mik said in Puzzle time:

                    Zero. Klaus played piano after which she was shunned.

                    Klaus expressed the desire for "she" to be used as his her preferred pronoun? Makes sense, I just wanted to confirm.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • 89th8 Offline
                      89th8 Offline
                      89th
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      I think 20 must be too obvious, so if we take the "and got a difference answer every time" key phrase, that means even individuals WITHIN a couple have difference answers, which means we need to find all the various valid combos out there...leaving Mrs. Klaus shaking 10 hands.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • markM Offline
                        markM Offline
                        mark
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        It doesn't matter. They will all be dead from corona virus in a few weeks. 🌡🤒

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Can’t just throw out a number, you have to say why

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            This one took me a little while.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • KlausK Offline
                              KlausK Offline
                              Klaus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              OK, let's see.

                              Since there are at most 20 people anyone can shake hands with, the different numbers of the other 21 partygoers must be the numbers from 0 to 20...

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • KlausK Offline
                                KlausK Offline
                                Klaus
                                wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                #15

                                What I don't understand is how Ms. Klaus plays any designated role in your puzzle that would allow me to distinguish her from anyone else.

                                Let's say we name the other 21 persons p-0 to p-20, whereby p-0 shook 0 hands, p-1 shook 1 hands etc.

                                Ms. Klaus could be any p-i without raising a contradiction.

                                So, let's say Ms. Klaus is p-7 and shook hands with 7 other people. If the puzzle is well-designed, that should lead to some kind of contradiction. But I don't see a contradiction.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • KlausK Offline
                                  KlausK Offline
                                  Klaus
                                  wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                  #16

                                  Hm, wait a minute.

                                  The guy with the 20 handshakes, p-20 must have shaken Ms. Klaus hand because he shook everyone's hand except his own partner's.

                                  So Ms. Klaus cannot be p-0. And p-20's partner must be p-0, by the same argument.

                                  Presumably this is the base case of some kind of inductive argument...

                                  But on the other hand, what prevents Ms. Klaus from being p-20? Hmm...

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • KlausK Offline
                                    KlausK Offline
                                    Klaus
                                    wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                    #17

                                    Ah, I think I got it.

                                    p-20 must have shaken my hand and hence cannot be Ms. Klaus.
                                    p-20's partner must have been p-0, who can hence also not be Ms. Klaus.

                                    p-19 must have shaken my hand, too, because he didn't shake p-0's hand, hence p-19 cannot be Ms. Klaus either.
                                    By the same argument as above, p-19's partner is p-1, who also cannot be Ms. Klaus.

                                    If we continue in the same way until p-11 and p-9, we see that the only number that is left is p-10.

                                    Ms. Klaus shook 10 hands.

                                    Correct?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      No, your first statement is not correct.

                                      Hint - first find out how many hands you shook.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • KlausK Offline
                                        KlausK Offline
                                        Klaus
                                        wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                        #19

                                        Oh, I see. I think my solution is still correct.

                                        p-20 must be married to p-0, ..., p-11 must be married to p-9.

                                        Hence my wife can't be any of p-0,...,p-9 or p-11 to p-20, because I'm not among the ones they are married to.

                                        That leaves only the p-10 spot for her.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • KlausK Offline
                                          KlausK Offline
                                          Klaus
                                          wrote on last edited by Klaus
                                          #20

                                          Here's the full solution.

                                          p-0 : {}
                                          p-1 : {p-20}
                                          p-2 : {p-19,p-20}
                                          ...
                                          p-9 : {p-12,....,p-20}
                                          p-10 = Ms. Klaus : {p-11,...,p-20}
                                          p-11 : {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-12, ..., p-20}
                                          p-12 : {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-9, p-11, p-13, ..., p-20}
                                          p-13 : {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-8, p-9, p-11,p-12, p-14, ..., p-20}
                                          ...
                                          p-20: {Mr. Klaus, Ms. Klaus, p-1, .., p-9, p-11,...,p-19}
                                          Mr. Klaus: {p-11,...,p-20}

                                          Is this not correct?

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