Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

Think of his posture and actions with respect to the post-war global order, for example. (Nato, WHO, TPP, NAFTA, WTO, UNESCO, G7, etc. etc. etc.)

But also on a national institutional scale. Norm-breaking is part of his brand.

As Horace himself approvingly noted, he is the horse in the hospital.

It is part of all prominent political brands to selectively destroy and rebuild.

The horse in the hospital was a joke by John Mulaney which I said was pretty good but didn't lead much of anywhere funny, in the act.

[jon-nyc]

@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

But your willingness to say that - that my Trump support is by my own confession based on my affinity for mindless destruction - without a willingness to back it up, is in fact revealing of a certain character.

You don't think it has even a little to do with the challenges of searching a 15 year database of posts?

[jon-nyc]

One of the problems with our populist movements, like populist movements in general, is they are very keen on what they want to destroy and very vague on what or how to build in its place.

[Horace]

If it's difficult to search it, you could attempt an exercise of humility and acknowledge that you're framing what I wrote in a conveniently dismissive way, based potentially on your own misunderstanding.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

One of the problems with our populist movements, like populist movements in general, is they are very keen on what they want to destroy and very vague on what or how to build in its place.

is that as big a problem as people's psychological blocks against distinguishing a preference for one candidate over the other, from full unqualified love of that candidate?

[Horace]

And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed your bias that there's something psychologically wrong with Trump supporters. It's been your ground truth about my Trump support ever since, and from that seed of contempt grew your comfortable total dismissal of me as a tribal pill swallower. It's all very lazy of you.

[jon-nyc]

Funny, I didn't think you were tribal in 2011, and I did in 2017. Did I just become more lazy in that time?

I'll bet I'm not the only one who noticed the change became more lazy.

[Horace]

You and whomever else thinks whatever you and whomever else think, are more than welcome to point it out to me when I post something that must certainly be informed by irrational tribalism. I am always willing to teach. I hope you're willing to learn.

[jon-nyc]

I'm looking forward to it.

[Horace]

Meanwhile, challenge to attempt an exercise of humility not accepted. Duly noted, and not surprising.

[jon-nyc]

I'm talking to you, aren't I?

[89th]

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

I'm talking to you, aren't I?

Your ability to interact with the rabble from your perch above it all is always impressive.

[89th]

[Larry]

It doesnt seem to have occurred to Jon that what he sees as "tribalism" from Horace is merely a normal and healthy ability to tell the difference between shit and shinola, and it is Jon's TDS that's standing in the way of him having that ability himself.

But of course I'm just a poor old Injun from the South so what would I know...

[Larry]

@89th said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

Not until I start grinning and calling someone Richard. THEN it's on....... hahaha

[jon-nyc]

@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed ....

This is an interesting sentence. You're conceding that reading such a statement from you would stick in my memory, while at the same time casting doubt on it. Seems like you should pick one?

Anyway, I'll give you the much - we all have lots of motivations for things we do, many if not most unknown to us. The one a person reports at a particular time isn't the whole picture. But it contains information nevertheless.

[Horace]

I think you took something out of full context, leaped at a few words that fit with something that you want to believe. Something that makes the world simpler, more comprehensible and self-serving. This is how the human mind operates. I am not immune from that, but I try to have some humility around that.

[Horace]

But that said, and as I mentioned above, everybody thinks some selective destruction is for the best sometimes. It is not categorically insane, while your convenient framing of what I said was meant to be categorically insane.

[jon-nyc]

In our populist movements the select statement is getting much too broad.