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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

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  • HoraceH Horace

    @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

    @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

    @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:
    But I don't think that all the destruction you will happily watch in service of it could be termed strictly sane or rational.

    This is quite ironic given my main opposition to Trumpism is its nihilistic tendencies. Very anti-conservative in the Burkean sense.

    In fact my opposition to Trumpism and the progressive left comes from an identical place.

    Yes, I understand you give yourself that much credibility.

    Some day when I'm bored I'll even find your early confession of supporting Trump simply to watch him tear things down. This was before you were fully orange-pilled, it was pure ressentiment talking.

    Your track record of understanding what I write is not as perfect as you'd like to believe, jon. But your willingness to say that - that my Trump support is by my own confession based on my affinity for mindless destruction - without a willingness to back it up, is in fact revealing of a certain character.

    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #23

    @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

    But your willingness to say that - that my Trump support is by my own confession based on my affinity for mindless destruction - without a willingness to back it up, is in fact revealing of a certain character.

    You don't think it has even a little to do with the challenges of searching a 15 year database of posts?

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
      #24

      One of the problems with our populist movements, like populist movements in general, is they are very keen on what they want to destroy and very vague on what or how to build in its place.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #25

        If it's difficult to search it, you could attempt an exercise of humility and acknowledge that you're framing what I wrote in a conveniently dismissive way, based potentially on your own misunderstanding.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          One of the problems with our populist movements, like populist movements in general, is they are very keen on what they want to destroy and very vague on what or how to build in its place.

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #26

          @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

          One of the problems with our populist movements, like populist movements in general, is they are very keen on what they want to destroy and very vague on what or how to build in its place.

          is that as big a problem as people's psychological blocks against distinguishing a preference for one candidate over the other, from full unqualified love of that candidate?

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #27

            And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed your bias that there's something psychologically wrong with Trump supporters. It's been your ground truth about my Trump support ever since, and from that seed of contempt grew your comfortable total dismissal of me as a tribal pill swallower. It's all very lazy of you.

            Education is extremely important.

            jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #28

              Funny, I didn't think you were tribal in 2011, and I did in 2017. Did I just become more lazy in that time?

              I'll bet I'm not the only one who noticed the change became more lazy.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #29

                You and whomever else thinks whatever you and whomever else think, are more than welcome to point it out to me when I post something that must certainly be informed by irrational tribalism. I am always willing to teach. I hope you're willing to learn.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #30

                  I'm looking forward to it.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #31

                    Meanwhile, challenge to attempt an exercise of humility not accepted. Duly noted, and not surprising.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #32

                      I'm talking to you, aren't I?

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • 89th8 Offline
                        89th8 Offline
                        89th
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #33

                        fight

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          I'm talking to you, aren't I?

                          HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #34

                          @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                          I'm talking to you, aren't I?

                          Your ability to interact with the rabble from your perch above it all is always impressive.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • 89th8 Offline
                            89th8 Offline
                            89th
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #35

                            fight

                            LarryL 1 Reply Last reply
                            • LarryL Offline
                              LarryL Offline
                              Larry
                              wrote on last edited by Larry
                              #36

                              It doesnt seem to have occurred to Jon that what he sees as "tribalism" from Horace is merely a normal and healthy ability to tell the difference between shit and shinola, and it is Jon's TDS that's standing in the way of him having that ability himself.

                              But of course I'm just a poor old Injun from the South so what would I know...

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • 89th8 89th

                                fight

                                LarryL Offline
                                LarryL Offline
                                Larry
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #37

                                @89th said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                fight

                                Not until I start grinning and calling someone Richard. THEN it's on....... hahaha

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • HoraceH Horace

                                  And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed your bias that there's something psychologically wrong with Trump supporters. It's been your ground truth about my Trump support ever since, and from that seed of contempt grew your comfortable total dismissal of me as a tribal pill swallower. It's all very lazy of you.

                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #38

                                  @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                  And by the way, the reason you remember what I allegedly wrote so vividly, is because it confirmed ....

                                  This is an interesting sentence. You're conceding that reading such a statement from you would stick in my memory, while at the same time casting doubt on it. Seems like you should pick one?

                                  Anyway, I'll give you the much - we all have lots of motivations for things we do, many if not most unknown to us. The one a person reports at a particular time isn't the whole picture. But it contains information nevertheless.

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #39

                                    I think you took something out of full context, leaped at a few words that fit with something that you want to believe. Something that makes the world simpler, more comprehensible and self-serving. This is how the human mind operates. I am not immune from that, but I try to have some humility around that.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #40

                                      But that said, and as I mentioned above, everybody thinks some selective destruction is for the best sometimes. It is not categorically insane, while your convenient framing of what I said was meant to be categorically insane.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #41

                                        In our populist movements the select statement is getting much too broad.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #42

                                          Yes I have often bemoaned the mindless destructive impulses of the left, cloaked in righteousness, that have become more and more prevalent in the Trump era.

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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