Student loans

[George K]

@brenda said in Student loans:

Sorry for derailing the student loan thread!

No worries! We're all friends here, and I appreciate your honesty about a horrible situation.

[Mik]

While sad, it has a silver lining in that you rose above and are stronger and more loving for it.

[brenda]

@Mik said in Student loans:

While sad, it has a silver lining in that you rose above and are stronger and more loving for it.

Ayup. Some people teach you how to be, and some people teach you how not to be.

I recently had a profound moment with kiddo when she said she wanted me to talk with one of her friends who is having trouble. Kiddo said this friend needed a good parent to help her.

Wow. Best compliment ever from kiddo. Virtual hugs all around for that one!

[Axtremus]

Sorry, @brenda … here’s hoping your remaining years will continue to be spectacularly better than your first 18.

[jon-nyc]

Let’s go to Brenda’s “Almost Two Score” thread and start talking about student loans.

[Mik]

I guess they are keeping him in the hospital. He's gettin' mighty testy.

[Jolly]

@Mik said in Student loans:

I guess they are keeping him in the hospital. He's gettin' mighty testy.

Nothing a good worming wouldn't fix ...

[brenda]

@jon-nyc said in Student loans:

Let’s go to Brenda’s “Almost Two Score” thread and start talking about student loans.

Absolutely! Mix it in with our fountain project!

[brenda]

I heard there was a contest for derailing the most threads.

[Horace]

You could derail a trolley problem thread to provide a clever meta solution.

[jon-nyc]

It could be very ethical (though not in a deontological sense) if a bunch of members were getting crushed with the current thread topic.

[Catseye3]

Cats writing down deontological to look up later; it's too nice a day to get hung up on this shit.

[Axtremus]

@Catseye3 said in Student loans:

Cats writing down deontological to look up later; it's too nice a day to get hung up on this shit.

Copied from Wikipedia:

In moral philosophy, deontological ethics or deontology (from Greek: δέον, 'obligation, duty' + λόγος, 'study') is the normative ethical theory that the morality of an action should be based on whether that action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than based on the consequences of the action. It is sometimes described as duty-, obligation-, or rule-based ethics. Deontological ethics is commonly contrasted to consequentialism, virtue ethics, and pragmatic ethics. In this terminology, action is more important than the consequences.

[Copper]

Paying off someone's loan for free would just suck the self-respect right out of them.

Anyone who had their loan paid off for no good reason would never get a good night's sleep again.

Most of them would probably end up as suicides.

The action itself is wrong.

[Mik]

In this article is exactly the people I do not sympathize with. $323,000 debt to be a teacher.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/meet-a-teacher-with-303-000-in-student-debt-who-says-biden-s-10-000-loan-forgiveness-plan-is-not-even-a-drop-in-the-bucket/ar-AAY6vJH?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=04733097338b4f309e171b9adcda9a58

[Jolly]

What idiot borrows over 300 grand to be a teacher?

And who would lend it to her?

[Catseye3]

@Axtremus said in Student loans:

. . . the normative ethical theory that the morality of an action should be based on whether that action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than based on the consequences of the action. It is sometimes described as . . . rule-based ethics.

Thanks, Ax.

One of my favorite writers, Robert Crais, wrote a scene where the hero's best friend, a cop, and his partner -- also a cop but a sketchy one -- were about to arrest a suspected child molester and murderer. After some stuff, the sketchy cop was fixing to shoot the badguy when the first cop shot his partner to prevent him from doing this. Howling outrage back at the cop shop, needless to say.

The rules totally forbad the harming of a cop to save the life of a badguy, in this case a really bad guy. But the shooting cop could not accept what he saw as the greater crime -- a cop shooting someone to death on suspicion and/or general dislike of a non-threatening suspect (at that moment), without due process.

So he broke the rules, but felt he had no choice.

So deontologically what he did was wrong, yes?

[Catseye3]

@Jolly said in Student loans:

What idiot borrows over 300 grand to be a teacher?

A very, very, very, very, very, very committed one.

Hopefully, if s/he succeeded in getting to a classroom they will know to say asked instead of ast, which to my shock I heard a teacher say one time in a classroom.

A teacher!

[Axtremus]

What are the general guidelines for how much one can reasonably borrow for education to become a professional at something (e.g., a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer)?

How would you advise your own kids on this?

[Mik]

@Jolly said in Student loans:

What idiot borrows over 300 grand to be a teacher?

And who would lend it to her?

A. Someone who wants an Ivy League degree but has no money OR someone who wants to life the high life in college

B. Gummint. $303,000 were gummint loans, $20,000 private.

But yeah, that needs to be looked at when the debt is so out of proportion to the potential earnings.