Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal
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@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The British and the Soviets got their ass kicked. We didn't.
Yeah, that's the main thing to worry about here.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 14:29 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The British and the Soviets got their ass kicked. We didn't.
Yeah, that's the main thing to worry about here.
Hey, you're the one that brought it up...
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 15:22 last edited by xenon
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The British and the Soviets got their ass kicked. We didn't.
true, but the Taliban still upgraded their AK47s to American arms and humvees
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 15:23 last edited byThis post is deleted!
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 15:24 last edited by
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
That, and a lot more.
It's like Christmas in August...
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 15:30 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 16:11 last edited by Doctor Phibes
I think it's clear this was always going to happen.
I heard Paul Wolfowitz on the radio this morning saying it was a disastrous error. And he sure knows a lot about those.
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I think it's clear this was always going to happen.
I heard Paul Wolfowitz on the radio this morning saying it was a disastrous error. And he sure knows a lot about those.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 16:18 last edited by@doctor-phibes Did he offer any long-term solutions?
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@doctor-phibes Did he offer any long-term solutions?
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 16:53 last edited by@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@doctor-phibes Did he offer any long-term solutions?
Not that I heard. He just said it was awful. As bad as the end of Vietnam.
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 17:14 last edited by
Well, at least Biden didn't say anything that hurt somebody's feelings..,,,,
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 17:19 last edited by
There are only two possible outcomes - we stay or we go. Was there any possibility of a positive outcome by staying or had all that could be accomplished been done? It's been 20 years.
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 17:25 last edited by
I watched Blinken provide a debrief last night. It was fascinating watching his word choice and clear discomfort in trying to put a good face on an unmitigated disaster.
We will see if the Taliban allow us to withdraw from Kabul on an orderly basis or if there will be a siege. Mik was right about the comparisons to the last days of Saigon.
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 20:11 last edited by
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
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“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 20:25 last edited by@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
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@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 20:35 last edited by@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
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@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:43 last edited by Loki@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
I get your point though. Biden is making him sell a shit sandwich. 3 battalions are withdrawing to Kabul to protect the outflow of American interests in the city. I do wonder what the Taliban will do. I think the US is counting on no siege. I would love to be in the war room as that assessment is being continually updated.
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@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
I get your point though. Biden is making him sell a shit sandwich. 3 battalions are withdrawing to Kabul to protect the outflow of American interests in the city. I do wonder what the Taliban will do. I think the US is counting on no siege. I would love to be in the war room as that assessment is being continually updated.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:49 last edited by@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
I would love to be in the war room as that assessment is being continually updated.
That's not in Camp David, is it (asking for a friend, of course)?
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:51 last edited by kluurs
The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
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The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:55 last edited by@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed.
I disagree. It is cruel, but new ideas were brought to light, hope for the future; these women have daughters who they will pass these new messages on to.
Not treating it lightly. You're right, the disappointment must be bitter. But -- well, I won't repeat myself.
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The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 22:00 last edited by@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
Well said, @kluurs .
However, I question this:
"It would appear that once again the idea of nation building...where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. "
I may be wrong, but the population that didn't want that was the one that was better-armed and more persistent than the US and its allies were.
It would be interesting to see a poll of the population and see how then feel about it.
My memory fades in my dotage, but I remember seeing polling in Iraq that supported new freedoms, etc.
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@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
Well said, @kluurs .
However, I question this:
"It would appear that once again the idea of nation building...where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. "
I may be wrong, but the population that didn't want that was the one that was better-armed and more persistent than the US and its allies were.
It would be interesting to see a poll of the population and see how then feel about it.
My memory fades in my dotage, but I remember seeing polling in Iraq that supported new freedoms, etc.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 23:27 last edited byIt is a very fragmented, tribal society. The government troops were well armed but neither unified or well led. To survive, we would have needed to maintain a sizable number of troops as we have in Korea and Germany. That’s a costly proposition.