Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 16:11 last edited by Doctor Phibes
I think it's clear this was always going to happen.
I heard Paul Wolfowitz on the radio this morning saying it was a disastrous error. And he sure knows a lot about those.
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I think it's clear this was always going to happen.
I heard Paul Wolfowitz on the radio this morning saying it was a disastrous error. And he sure knows a lot about those.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 16:18 last edited by@doctor-phibes Did he offer any long-term solutions?
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@doctor-phibes Did he offer any long-term solutions?
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 16:53 last edited by@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@doctor-phibes Did he offer any long-term solutions?
Not that I heard. He just said it was awful. As bad as the end of Vietnam.
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 17:14 last edited by
Well, at least Biden didn't say anything that hurt somebody's feelings..,,,,
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 17:19 last edited by
There are only two possible outcomes - we stay or we go. Was there any possibility of a positive outcome by staying or had all that could be accomplished been done? It's been 20 years.
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 17:25 last edited by
I watched Blinken provide a debrief last night. It was fascinating watching his word choice and clear discomfort in trying to put a good face on an unmitigated disaster.
We will see if the Taliban allow us to withdraw from Kabul on an orderly basis or if there will be a siege. Mik was right about the comparisons to the last days of Saigon.
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 20:11 last edited by
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
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“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 20:25 last edited by@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
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@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 20:35 last edited by@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
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@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:43 last edited by Loki@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
I get your point though. Biden is making him sell a shit sandwich. 3 battalions are withdrawing to Kabul to protect the outflow of American interests in the city. I do wonder what the Taliban will do. I think the US is counting on no siege. I would love to be in the war room as that assessment is being continually updated.
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@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
“His” word choice? I’m afraid the days of POTUS choosing his own words are temporarily suspended, pending the next transfer of power.
I said Blinken.
Ah, my bad. Rent free in my head, as they say.
I get your point though. Biden is making him sell a shit sandwich. 3 battalions are withdrawing to Kabul to protect the outflow of American interests in the city. I do wonder what the Taliban will do. I think the US is counting on no siege. I would love to be in the war room as that assessment is being continually updated.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:49 last edited by@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
I would love to be in the war room as that assessment is being continually updated.
That's not in Camp David, is it (asking for a friend, of course)?
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wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:51 last edited by kluurs
The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
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The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 21:55 last edited by@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed.
I disagree. It is cruel, but new ideas were brought to light, hope for the future; these women have daughters who they will pass these new messages on to.
Not treating it lightly. You're right, the disappointment must be bitter. But -- well, I won't repeat myself.
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The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 22:00 last edited by@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
Well said, @kluurs .
However, I question this:
"It would appear that once again the idea of nation building...where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. "
I may be wrong, but the population that didn't want that was the one that was better-armed and more persistent than the US and its allies were.
It would be interesting to see a poll of the population and see how then feel about it.
My memory fades in my dotage, but I remember seeing polling in Iraq that supported new freedoms, etc.
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@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The shame resides with the people in Afghanistan who believed - particularly, the young girls/women who sought education. Raising dreams/hopes to have them dashed is a greater tragedy than when no hope existed. It would appear that once again the idea of nation building - of bringing another nation's view of the world to a nation where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. It has implications far beyond the middle east. How do we all get along with such divergent ideas of what the world should look like - and how it should work? Who should lead and to what destination?
Well said, @kluurs .
However, I question this:
"It would appear that once again the idea of nation building...where only a segment of the population wanted that was a dream too far. "
I may be wrong, but the population that didn't want that was the one that was better-armed and more persistent than the US and its allies were.
It would be interesting to see a poll of the population and see how then feel about it.
My memory fades in my dotage, but I remember seeing polling in Iraq that supported new freedoms, etc.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 23:27 last edited byIt is a very fragmented, tribal society. The government troops were well armed but neither unified or well led. To survive, we would have needed to maintain a sizable number of troops as we have in Korea and Germany. That’s a costly proposition.
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It is a very fragmented, tribal society. The government troops were well armed but neither unified or well led. To survive, we would have needed to maintain a sizable number of troops as we have in Korea and Germany. That’s a costly proposition.
wrote on 14 Aug 2021, 23:28 last edited by@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
maintain a sizable number of troops as we have in Korea and Germany
Yes.
Are either of those necessary now? I can almost understand Korea...
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wrote on 15 Aug 2021, 00:32 last edited by
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wrote on 15 Aug 2021, 01:24 last edited by
Former POTUS speaks:
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday evening blasted his succesor’s strategy for exiting Afghanistan, saying it was driven by
“weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence.”“Joe Biden gets it wrong every time on foreign policy, and many other issues,” Trump said in a statement issued by his office. “Everyone knew he couldn’t handle the pressure. Even Obama’s Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, said as much.”
Trump said his administration left behind a plan to keep pressure on the Taliban while U.S. troops withdrew, and that it was disregarded. He suggested the sudden surge by the Taliban across Afghanistan was due to that failure.
Biden “ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him— a plan that protected our people and our property, and ensured the Taliban would never dream of taking our Embassy or providing a base for new attacks against America,” he said.
Former Pentagon chief of staff Kash Patel told Just the News on Friday that Trump’s plan included continuing U.S.air power to keep the Taliban in check and try to force them into negotiations.
“What a disgrace it will be when the Taliban raises their flag over America’s Embassy in Kabul. This is complete failure through weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence,” Trump said.
And, like everyone else in the last week, he offers no opinion as to what should be done.
"Don't do that," is not good criticism, unless you can append it with "do this instead."
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wrote on 15 Aug 2021, 02:12 last edited by
Well said Kluurs. Interesting thread.
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Former POTUS speaks:
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday evening blasted his succesor’s strategy for exiting Afghanistan, saying it was driven by
“weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence.”“Joe Biden gets it wrong every time on foreign policy, and many other issues,” Trump said in a statement issued by his office. “Everyone knew he couldn’t handle the pressure. Even Obama’s Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, said as much.”
Trump said his administration left behind a plan to keep pressure on the Taliban while U.S. troops withdrew, and that it was disregarded. He suggested the sudden surge by the Taliban across Afghanistan was due to that failure.
Biden “ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him— a plan that protected our people and our property, and ensured the Taliban would never dream of taking our Embassy or providing a base for new attacks against America,” he said.
Former Pentagon chief of staff Kash Patel told Just the News on Friday that Trump’s plan included continuing U.S.air power to keep the Taliban in check and try to force them into negotiations.
“What a disgrace it will be when the Taliban raises their flag over America’s Embassy in Kabul. This is complete failure through weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence,” Trump said.
And, like everyone else in the last week, he offers no opinion as to what should be done.
"Don't do that," is not good criticism, unless you can append it with "do this instead."
wrote on 15 Aug 2021, 02:58 last edited by@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
Former POTUS speaks:
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday evening blasted his succesor’s strategy for exiting Afghanistan, saying it was driven by
“weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence.”“Joe Biden gets it wrong every time on foreign policy, and many other issues,” Trump said in a statement issued by his office. “Everyone knew he couldn’t handle the pressure. Even Obama’s Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, said as much.”
Trump said his administration left behind a plan to keep pressure on the Taliban while U.S. troops withdrew, and that it was disregarded. He suggested the sudden surge by the Taliban across Afghanistan was due to that failure.
Biden “ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him— a plan that protected our people and our property, and ensured the Taliban would never dream of taking our Embassy or providing a base for new attacks against America,” he said.
Former Pentagon chief of staff Kash Patel told Just the News on Friday that Trump’s plan included continuing U.S.air power to keep the Taliban in check and try to force them into negotiations.
“What a disgrace it will be when the Taliban raises their flag over America’s Embassy in Kabul. This is complete failure through weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence,” Trump said.
And, like everyone else in the last week, he offers no opinion as to what should be done.
"Don't do that," is not good criticism, unless you can append it with "do this instead."
I'm pretty sure that embracing The Force would work.
Failing that, re-arranging G.I. Joe and Barbie in amusingly erotic positions never fails.