Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes And you were expecting the Biden/Harris strategy to lead to...?
I wasn't expecting it to lead to anything, however it seems to me that one person is responsible for this war. Not Biden, not Zelenski, not Harris.
Maybe he's the one who should be held accountable rather than attempting to shift blame like this, and certainly not by appeasement of actual dictators.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:17 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
Since you don't actually have any reasonable hope for any specific conclusion, you're talking about nothing other than your feels about the rhetoric being employed by the players. Meanwhile, there's a forever war going, at least until an inevitable Russian victory. I hear nobody engaging with that point, not even the illustrious Bolton, who admitted the Russians are the inevitable victor in a war of attrition, while also sneering at Trump for potentially "surrendering".
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And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:24 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
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wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:42 last edited by
And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
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And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:47 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:49 last edited by@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10%
Oh for fuck's sake Jolly. You're parroting Russian propoganda.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko
Official polling is limited and it is extremely difficult to carry out accurate surveys during a time of war. Millions of Ukrainians have fled and Russia has occupied around a fifth of the country.
However, some polling has been possible to carry out by telephone. A survey conducted this month found that 57% of Ukrainians said they trusted the president, according to the Ukraine-based Kyiv International Institute of Sociology.
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@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
wrote on 20 Feb 2025, 23:55 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reining in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reining in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:05 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:10 last edited by Renauda. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion.
Convince me. All you are peddling is that Ukraine unconditionally surrender to all the Kremlin’s demands. There won’t even be a sovereign rump left of the Ukrainian state when it’s over. It will be the Kremlin’s puppet.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:13 last edited by@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:18 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
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wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:22 last edited by xenon
The issue is that the “negotiated” settlement still results Ukrainians being “pacified” by the Russians. Pretty much same result as a prolonged war of attrition - except maybe the fighters just get blindfolded and executed.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:23 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
It's really not about what I want, or what you want, or even what Donald Trump wants. Surely, it's about what Ukrainians want. They are the innocent victims here.
Is anybody asking them? You seem keener to tell them that it's in everybody's best interest if they capitulate.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
It's really not about what I want, or what you want, or even what Donald Trump wants. Surely, it's about what Ukrainians want. They are the innocent victims here.
Is anybody asking them? You seem keener to tell them that it's in everybody's best interest if they capitulate.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:26 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
It's really not about what I want, or what you want, or even what Donald Trump wants. Surely, it's about what Ukrainians want. They are the innocent victims here.
Is anybody asking them? You seem keener to tell them.
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
It's really not about what I want, or what you want, or even what Donald Trump wants. Surely, it's about what Ukrainians want. They are the innocent victims here.
Is anybody asking them? You seem keener to tell them.
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:30 last edited by@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
And people like you would have seen Britain surrender to the Nazis, because you'd have difficulty conceptualising a situation where they could beat the motherfuckers.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:32 last edited by Renauda@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
Stop digging yourself deeper than you already are. Projection and deflection won’t work here.
Nobody with any understanding of Russia expects a Western progressive to replace the tyrant in the Kremlin. That horse left the barn and died a miserable death sometime during Yeltsin’s second term in the 1990s. The best we can hope for is someone like Putin appeared to be during his first term. Preferably someone whose prior profession was something other than a KGB or FSB hood.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
And people like you would have seen Britain surrender to the Nazis, because you'd have difficulty conceptualising a situation where they could beat the motherfuckers.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:33 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
And people like you would have seen Britain surrender to the Nazis, because you'd have difficulty conceptualising a situation where they could beat the motherfuckers.
But see, that's an actual argument. If you would like to go with "but Ukraine can win", then great. At least it's an argument. Not one I've seen any informed person agree with, but it's an argument.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
Stop digging yourself deeper than you already are. Projection and deflection won’t work here.
Nobody with any understanding of Russia expects a Western progressive to replace the tyrant in the Kremlin. That horse left the barn and died a miserable death sometime during Yeltsin’s second term in the 1990s. The best we can hope for is someone like Putin appeared to be during his first term. Preferably someone whose prior profession was something other than a KGB or FSB hood.
wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:35 last edited by@Renauda said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
Stop digging yourself deeper than you already are. Projection and deflection won’t work here.
Nobody with any understanding of Russia expects a Western progressive to replace the tyrant in the Kremlin. That horse left the barn and died a miserable death sometime during Yeltsin’s second term in the 1990s. The best we can hope for is someone like Putin appeared to be during his first term. Preferably someone whose prior profession was something other than a KGB or FSB hood.
I thought it was obvious I was presenting it as a fanciful scenario. That is what deus ex machina means. But you go ahead and dunk on it. Well played.
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wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:37 last edited by Renauda
I gladly will and, I will add, with deserved impunity,
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wrote on 21 Feb 2025, 00:54 last edited by