Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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And what do you pair of brain surgeons suggest if Putin doesn't stop at Ukraine?
I was only joking
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@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
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@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10%
Oh for fuck's sake Jolly. You're parroting Russian propoganda.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko
Official polling is limited and it is extremely difficult to carry out accurate surveys during a time of war. Millions of Ukrainians have fled and Russia has occupied around a fifth of the country.
However, some polling has been possible to carry out by telephone. A survey conducted this month found that 57% of Ukrainians said they trusted the president, according to the Ukraine-based Kyiv International Institute of Sociology.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reining in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
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. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion.
Convince me. All you are peddling is that Ukraine unconditionally surrender to all the Kremlin’s demands. There won’t even be a sovereign rump left of the Ukrainian state when it’s over. It will be the Kremlin’s puppet.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
I was only joking
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
It's really not about what I want, or what you want, or even what Donald Trump wants. Surely, it's about what Ukrainians want. They are the innocent victims here.
Is anybody asking them? You seem keener to tell them that it's in everybody's best interest if they capitulate.
I was only joking
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
It's really not about what I want, or what you want, or even what Donald Trump wants. Surely, it's about what Ukrainians want. They are the innocent victims here.
Is anybody asking them? You seem keener to tell them.
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
Education is extremely important.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
And people like you would have seen Britain surrender to the Nazis, because you'd have difficulty conceptualising a situation where they could beat the motherfuckers.
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@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
Stop digging yourself deeper than you already are. Projection and deflection won’t work here.
Nobody with any understanding of Russia expects a Western progressive to replace the tyrant in the Kremlin. That horse left the barn and died a miserable death sometime during Yeltsin’s second term in the 1990s. The best we can hope for is someone like Putin appeared to be during his first term. Preferably someone whose prior profession was something other than a KGB or FSB hood.
‘a-blowe yow and be-kele yow wel, and comyth up all with your ease’ ~ attributed to Henry V
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I think you have difficulty conceptualizing a situation where there is no powerful law enforcer who can enforce what is or is not fair.
And people like you would have seen Britain surrender to the Nazis, because you'd have difficulty conceptualising a situation where they could beat the motherfuckers.
But see, that's an actual argument. If you would like to go with "but Ukraine can win", then great. At least it's an argument. Not one I've seen any informed person agree with, but it's an argument.
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@Renauda said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes I think it's cute that you can think deeply enough to interrogate the opinions of others, while you offer literally nothing in the way of an alternative plan that has any hope of ending anywhere but a Russian victory.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Please prove me wrong, please offer an alternative. Or just continue to be baffled at how anybody could possibly not use the right words, that's really the important thing here.
So, Trump blames Ukraine for starting this war, and somehow I'm the one in the wrong for pointing out that this is a lie?
That's a wild misinterpretation of this conversation. Or maybe you can point to anybody in this thread saying Ukraine started the war?
And no, I don't have a solution. And neither do you, so try reigning in the intellectual superiority bullshit for once.
No, you'll just happily go along with all the dunking as Trump makes noises towards a negotiated end to the war. Just like the illustrious Bolton, sneering at the idea of Trump "surrendering", while admitting in the same conversation that the other possible end is a Russian victory in a war of attrition. I hope for a negotiated peace, before the war of attrition reaches its inevitable conclusion. I realize those negotiations will get dunked on by all the usual suspects, all along the way, and I realize no negotiations were occurring under Biden. I'll take the faint hope over no hope.
An American President bullying the victim in this barbaric situation and quite possibly giving Putin exactly what he wants is not negotiating an end to the war.
You clearly don't want to say it out loud, and I don't blame you, but you effectively prefer a prolonged war of attrition, that Ukraine ultimately loses. Or maybe you're hoping for a Deus Ex Machina where Putin dies and a Western progressive rises in his place. I agree that that would be nice.
Stop digging yourself deeper than you already are. Projection and deflection won’t work here.
Nobody with any understanding of Russia expects a Western progressive to replace the tyrant in the Kremlin. That horse left the barn and died a miserable death sometime during Yeltsin’s second term in the 1990s. The best we can hope for is someone like Putin appeared to be during his first term. Preferably someone whose prior profession was something other than a KGB or FSB hood.
I thought it was obvious I was presenting it as a fanciful scenario. That is what deus ex machina means. But you go ahead and dunk on it. Well played.
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So would it still be “‘moralistic garbage” and “the rhetorical currency of globalists” if Ukraine assigns its natural resources’ receivables over to the US as per Trump’s proposed contract?
Would the USA suddenly then acquire vital strategic interests in guaranteeing Ukrainian sovereignty and security?
Sorry, but Baby Face Vance’s spin is pretty thin gruel.
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Alternative: Ukraine stands long enough to outlive Putin. Putin's expansionist dream pinned down by Ukrainian resistance. Rest of world essentially safe from Putin's ambition.
Ukraine does not need to "win." It just need to pin Putin's Russia down in one place for as long as Putin rules Russia. Figure out the rest when Russia gets a new leader.
Good enough?
