Hamas attacks Israel
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@LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:
By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.
The number she reported wasn't pretending to differentiate.
Serious question - wouldn't you expect a few thousand civilian deaths in 15 days of near continuous airstrikes and off target Hamas missiles? Even given the care the IAF is taking?
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
@LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:
By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.
The number she reported wasn't pretending to differentiate.
Serious question - wouldn't you expect a few thousand civilian deaths in 15 days of near continuous airstrikes and off target Hamas missiles? Even given the care the IAF is taking?
That seems very possible. It also seems possible to be more, and possibly less. That really isn’t enough information to make a judgement on. The information we do have supplied is 1500 children. That information is supplied by the Hamas Health Ministry that has been caught inflating numbers in the past. So is it reasonable to cast some doubt on their numbers?
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@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.
True. However "children" is a pretty fluid term.
A 16 year old child carjacked a car in Chicago the other night. So did a 14 year old child.
"Culture..."
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@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.
And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.
If the IDF was just randomly chucking bombs, sure. They aren’t. Let’s factor in how many actually followed the IDF’s instructions to leave the area? While I’m sure that many did not, I am also willing to bet many did. And of those that did leave, it would seem likely to be disproportionately families with children. Next we have to know the actual targets. What types of buildings are they? If apartment buildings then the number of children casualties would be high. If offices, manufacturing centers, etc… The number would likely quite low. Also, how effective are the roof knocks? Are people leaving the buildings? Or are they being forced to stay in the building?
There are way too many variables IMO to sit there and say “that feels right”.
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I think 300k Israelis displaced is high. I see on tv reports that 150k people have been moved from borders (north and south) to hotels (financed by the government).
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Prudent
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The Atlantic article on Netanyahu:
"The End of Netanyahu"
The article lists Netanyahu's various missteps over the years, argues that Netanyahu should resign right after the war, and predicts that Netanyahu will not be elected into Israeli leadership again.
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The biggest intelligence failure in a half century happened on his watch. I understand letting him conduct the war, you don’t change horses mid-river. But I can’t imagine how they could tolerate him after that.
If he were a mensch he’d have already announced that he’s stepping down after the war. But he’s actually a felon who needs the post to stay out of prison.
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netanyahu will never admit responsibilty, not in his DNA. but the fury in the public is obvious to all. the government will fall the day the fighting stops. its almost like a greek tragedy. netanyahu's one goal in life was to go down in history in churchillian terms. (whom he worships). saviour of the west. in the end, his legacy will always be the one who sunk us into the abyss.
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I can understand the…what’s the word, anger?…over the intelligence failure and how this happened on Netanyahu’s watch. I also understand that he has some questionable legal liability going on (esp with regard to the Israeli courts).
He has been in office (this time) for 14 months. Supposedly this attack has been years in the making. Shouldn’t some of the blame be placed on this predecessor?
Of course, those who should have known that this was in the making will not suffer any consequences, probably.
And as to the current situation, what, if anything, should he do differently? No doubt he’s quite he hawk, but are the Israelis up for this? Do they support his policies wrt Gaza, etc?
I say all these things as someone who really doesn’t know much about Bibi other than what I read here and in the press. Not a fan, just trying to suss it all out.
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Times mea culpa over hospital story.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html
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@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him?
I was unaware that his tenure was so long, only that he had been replaced by Bennett a couple of years ago.
He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.
Yes. How do the Israelis feel about that?
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Just a SWAG, but aren't the Israelis going to do with Hamas what they did with Hezbollah years ago? Namely, engage in a very intense urban combat war, rooting out as many terrorists as possible and damaging the organization so much, it will take years to rebuild?
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the idea that hamas should be "tolerated" in order to weaken the the palestinian authority was completely bibi's game plan. it was bibis govenements who authorized the transfer of billions in qatari cash to hamas, thinking it will buy off hamas and circumvent any need to deal with the PA. thats all bibis plan. for the past fifteen years. the bennet/lapid government stopped the cash payments, (they actually were delivered in suitcases at gaza/israel crossing points). there is no way bibi can recover from this. he made his whole career on claiming he knows best whats good for the country and everyone else is stupid.
latest polls put 80% of the populaton thinking its bibis fault.
