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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Hamas attacks Israel

Hamas attacks Israel

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

    And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

    George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #555

    @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

    And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

    True. However "children" is a pretty fluid term.

    A 16 year old child carjacked a car in Chicago the other night. So did a 14 year old child.

    "Culture..."

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

      And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

      LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins Dad
      wrote on last edited by
      #556

      @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

      If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

      And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

      If the IDF was just randomly chucking bombs, sure. They aren’t. Let’s factor in how many actually followed the IDF’s instructions to leave the area? While I’m sure that many did not, I am also willing to bet many did. And of those that did leave, it would seem likely to be disproportionately families with children. Next we have to know the actual targets. What types of buildings are they? If apartment buildings then the number of children casualties would be high. If offices, manufacturing centers, etc… The number would likely quite low. Also, how effective are the roof knocks? Are people leaving the buildings? Or are they being forced to stay in the building?

      There are way too many variables IMO to sit there and say “that feels right”.

      The Brad

      1 Reply Last reply
      • bachophileB Offline
        bachophileB Offline
        bachophile
        wrote on last edited by
        #557

        I think 300k Israelis displaced is high. I see on tv reports that 150k people have been moved from borders (north and south) to hotels (financed by the government).

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #558

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #559

            Saw another tweet saying they’re going to evacuate a couple of additional towns in the north.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #560

              Prudent

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Away
                AxtremusA Away
                Axtremus
                wrote on last edited by
                #561

                The Atlantic article on Netanyahu:

                https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-hamas-attack-failure/675722/

                "The End of Netanyahu"

                The article lists Netanyahu's various missteps over the years, argues that Netanyahu should resign right after the war, and predicts that Netanyahu will not be elected into Israeli leadership again.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #562

                  The biggest intelligence failure in a half century happened on his watch. I understand letting him conduct the war, you don’t change horses mid-river. But I can’t imagine how they could tolerate him after that.

                  If he were a mensch he’d have already announced that he’s stepping down after the war. But he’s actually a felon who needs the post to stay out of prison.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • bachophileB Offline
                    bachophileB Offline
                    bachophile
                    wrote on last edited by bachophile
                    #563

                    netanyahu will never admit responsibilty, not in his DNA. but the fury in the public is obvious to all. the government will fall the day the fighting stops. its almost like a greek tragedy. netanyahu's one goal in life was to go down in history in churchillian terms. (whom he worships). saviour of the west. in the end, his legacy will always be the one who sunk us into the abyss.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #564

                      I can understand the…what’s the word, anger?…over the intelligence failure and how this happened on Netanyahu’s watch. I also understand that he has some questionable legal liability going on (esp with regard to the Israeli courts).

                      He has been in office (this time) for 14 months. Supposedly this attack has been years in the making. Shouldn’t some of the blame be placed on this predecessor?

                      Of course, those who should have known that this was in the making will not suffer any consequences, probably.

                      And as to the current situation, what, if anything, should he do differently? No doubt he’s quite he hawk, but are the Israelis up for this? Do they support his policies wrt Gaza, etc?

                      I say all these things as someone who really doesn’t know much about Bibi other than what I read here and in the press. Not a fan, just trying to suss it all out.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #565

                        He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him? He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #566

                          Times mea culpa over hospital story.

                          https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him? He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #567

                            @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                            He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him?

                            I was unaware that his tenure was so long, only that he had been replaced by Bennett a couple of years ago.

                            He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.

                            Yes. How do the Israelis feel about that?

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #568

                              Just a SWAG, but aren't the Israelis going to do with Hamas what they did with Hezbollah years ago? Namely, engage in a very intense urban combat war, rooting out as many terrorists as possible and damaging the organization so much, it will take years to rebuild?

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • bachophileB Offline
                                bachophileB Offline
                                bachophile
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #569

                                the idea that hamas should be "tolerated" in order to weaken the the palestinian authority was completely bibi's game plan. it was bibis govenements who authorized the transfer of billions in qatari cash to hamas, thinking it will buy off hamas and circumvent any need to deal with the PA. thats all bibis plan. for the past fifteen years. the bennet/lapid government stopped the cash payments, (they actually were delivered in suitcases at gaza/israel crossing points). there is no way bibi can recover from this. he made his whole career on claiming he knows best whats good for the country and everyone else is stupid.
                                latest polls put 80% of the populaton thinking its bibis fault.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • RainmanR Offline
                                  RainmanR Offline
                                  Rainman
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #570

                                  Thanks for the explanation, bach. It helps a lot of us I'm sure.
                                  Stay safe friend.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #571

                                    Indeed. As I said, I’ve not followed Israeli politics very closely, other than to recently be aware of PM changes.

                                    The insights about the PA etc are very helpful.

                                    Thanks.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Online
                                      HoraceH Online
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #572

                                      I am curious the shape of the government that will replace him. I don’t imagine it will be the same shape as the opposition intended before the attack. The leader of the rightward side is going away, but I don’t know that that means the political culture shifted away from the spirit of Bibi. I’m not hearing that the intelligence failure was a failure of political philosophy.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #573

                                        It's interesting hearing all the wailing of even non-religious Jews after this terrorist attack and subsequent abandonment by the Left.

                                        I wonder what impact that will have politically, both inside and outside of Israel?

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Online
                                          HoraceH Online
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #574

                                          The "hug a death cult" crowd has self-identified, and is in the crosshairs of some social retribution against their political opinions, for the first time in their lives. That will realign chunks of the younger mediocre masses who are really just interested in being socially acceptable, and have never thought or cared about politics or culture to begin with. Social retribution is anathema to them, and they will toe whatever line they are told to toe.

                                          The older leftist mediocrities are more set in their ways, and have less to lose, and will happily die on whatever cross they think they're dying on.

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
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