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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Hamas attacks Israel

Hamas attacks Israel

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  • LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins Dad
    wrote on last edited by
    #548

    By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.

    The Brad

    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #549

      Speaking of misfires...

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

        @Axtremus said in Hamas attacks Israel:

        @LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:

        Because the target of those bombings are not people, but equipment, weapons, communication gear, etc…

        Can the equipment, weapons, communications gear, etc. not be moved by the terrorists/militants/rapists/murderers as they evacuate along with the civilians in light of the pre-bombing warnings?

        In 5 minutes? Best of luck.

        AxtremusA Offline
        AxtremusA Offline
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by
        #550

        @LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:

        @Axtremus said in Hamas attacks Israel:

        @LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:

        Because the target of those bombings are not people, but equipment, weapons, communication gear, etc…

        Can the equipment, weapons, communications gear, etc. not be moved by the terrorists/militants/rapists/murderers as they evacuate along with the civilians in light of the pre-bombing warnings?

        In 5 minutes? Best of luck.

        Is there a reason you cite “5 minutes” rather than “5 seconds” or “5 hours” or “5 days”?

        Is that enough to evacuate the children, the elderly, and the infirm?

        If there is enough time to evacuate the children, the elderly, and the infirm (think moving all from the orphanages, schools, old folks homes, hospital patients, including the ICUs and the maternity wards), would there not be enough time to move equipments, weapons, communications gear, etc.?

        If there is not enough time to evacuate the children, the elderly, and the infirm, is the warning then merely performative PR?

        1 Reply Last reply
        • LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins Dad
          wrote on last edited by
          #551

          alt text

          The Brad

          1 Reply Last reply
          • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

            By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.

            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #552

            @LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:

            By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.

            The number she reported wasn't pretending to differentiate.

            Serious question - wouldn't you expect a few thousand civilian deaths in 15 days of near continuous airstrikes and off target Hamas missiles? Even given the care the IAF is taking?

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              @LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:

              By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.

              The number she reported wasn't pretending to differentiate.

              Serious question - wouldn't you expect a few thousand civilian deaths in 15 days of near continuous airstrikes and off target Hamas missiles? Even given the care the IAF is taking?

              LuFins DadL Offline
              LuFins DadL Offline
              LuFins Dad
              wrote on last edited by
              #553

              @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

              @LuFins-Dad said in Hamas attacks Israel:

              By the way, how many of the 1500 children were actually killed by Hamas rockets that misfired? We know that in addition to the hospital, at least 500 rockets launched out of Gaza misfired and landed in occupied Gaza… And those buildings and places hit did not have a warning to evacuate.

              The number she reported wasn't pretending to differentiate.

              Serious question - wouldn't you expect a few thousand civilian deaths in 15 days of near continuous airstrikes and off target Hamas missiles? Even given the care the IAF is taking?

              That seems very possible. It also seems possible to be more, and possibly less. That really isn’t enough information to make a judgement on. The information we do have supplied is 1500 children. That information is supplied by the Hamas Health Ministry that has been caught inflating numbers in the past. So is it reasonable to cast some doubt on their numbers?

              The Brad

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #554

                If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

                And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                George KG LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

                  And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

                  George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #555

                  @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                  And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

                  True. However "children" is a pretty fluid term.

                  A 16 year old child carjacked a car in Chicago the other night. So did a 14 year old child.

                  "Culture..."

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

                    And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #556

                    @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                    If that’s who came from then sure. But the numbers don’t seem ridiculously high.

                    And the expectation would be children would be 50% of civilian casualties given the demographics of the place.

                    If the IDF was just randomly chucking bombs, sure. They aren’t. Let’s factor in how many actually followed the IDF’s instructions to leave the area? While I’m sure that many did not, I am also willing to bet many did. And of those that did leave, it would seem likely to be disproportionately families with children. Next we have to know the actual targets. What types of buildings are they? If apartment buildings then the number of children casualties would be high. If offices, manufacturing centers, etc… The number would likely quite low. Also, how effective are the roof knocks? Are people leaving the buildings? Or are they being forced to stay in the building?

                    There are way too many variables IMO to sit there and say “that feels right”.

                    The Brad

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • bachophileB Offline
                      bachophileB Offline
                      bachophile
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #557

                      I think 300k Israelis displaced is high. I see on tv reports that 150k people have been moved from borders (north and south) to hotels (financed by the government).

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #558

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #559

                          Saw another tweet saying they’re going to evacuate a couple of additional towns in the north.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #560

                            Prudent

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • AxtremusA Offline
                              AxtremusA Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #561

                              The Atlantic article on Netanyahu:

                              https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-hamas-attack-failure/675722/

                              "The End of Netanyahu"

                              The article lists Netanyahu's various missteps over the years, argues that Netanyahu should resign right after the war, and predicts that Netanyahu will not be elected into Israeli leadership again.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Offline
                                jon-nycJ Offline
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #562

                                The biggest intelligence failure in a half century happened on his watch. I understand letting him conduct the war, you don’t change horses mid-river. But I can’t imagine how they could tolerate him after that.

                                If he were a mensch he’d have already announced that he’s stepping down after the war. But he’s actually a felon who needs the post to stay out of prison.

                                Only non-witches get due process.

                                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • bachophileB Offline
                                  bachophileB Offline
                                  bachophile
                                  wrote on last edited by bachophile
                                  #563

                                  netanyahu will never admit responsibilty, not in his DNA. but the fury in the public is obvious to all. the government will fall the day the fighting stops. its almost like a greek tragedy. netanyahu's one goal in life was to go down in history in churchillian terms. (whom he worships). saviour of the west. in the end, his legacy will always be the one who sunk us into the abyss.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #564

                                    I can understand the…what’s the word, anger?…over the intelligence failure and how this happened on Netanyahu’s watch. I also understand that he has some questionable legal liability going on (esp with regard to the Israeli courts).

                                    He has been in office (this time) for 14 months. Supposedly this attack has been years in the making. Shouldn’t some of the blame be placed on this predecessor?

                                    Of course, those who should have known that this was in the making will not suffer any consequences, probably.

                                    And as to the current situation, what, if anything, should he do differently? No doubt he’s quite he hawk, but are the Israelis up for this? Do they support his policies wrt Gaza, etc?

                                    I say all these things as someone who really doesn’t know much about Bibi other than what I read here and in the press. Not a fan, just trying to suss it all out.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #565

                                      He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him? He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #566

                                        Times mea culpa over hospital story.

                                        https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him? He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #567

                                          @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                          He was out of power 18 months out of the last 15 years. How could the lack of preparedness buck not stop with him?

                                          I was unaware that his tenure was so long, only that he had been replaced by Bennett a couple of years ago.

                                          He also raised the price of hostages a hundred fold.

                                          Yes. How do the Israelis feel about that?

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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