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The New Coffee Room

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  3. American Response to the Pandemic

American Response to the Pandemic

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  • Catseye3C Catseye3

    Frank Bruni's Column (Excerpted, But Not Much):

    "Over the past week, both The Times and The Washington Post published ambitious examinations of this country’s disastrous response to the coronavirus, which rages “out of control” here, in The Post’s words, even though other nations “have rigorously driven infection rates nearly to zero.”

    "I . . . read them with a particular question in mind, one that has consumed me for many weeks: What does the abject failure of the United States, the richest country in the world, tell us about ourselves? In the mirror of Covid-19, how is America reflected?

    "Our struggle with this pandemic has convinced me that somewhere along the way, we went from celebrating individual liberty to fetishizing it, so that for too many Americans, all sense of civic obligation and communal good went out the window.

    "That’s the root of the resistance to lockdowns that many other countries entered more quickly, implemented more broadly or adhered to more diligently. And it encompasses a suspicion of federal versus local mandates that’s overwrought and insufficiently flexible when a crisis of this magnitude comes along. We badly needed a more coordinated national response than we had the appetite or aptitude for. We still do.

    "Somewhere along the way, we also developed an immature definition of freedom, conflating it with selfishness, convenience and personal comfort. That’s writ large in the freak-out over masks. In reality, they’re “a ticket to more freedom,” Gov. Jared Polis of Colorado said a few days ago when he instituted a requirement that Coloradans wear them in many circumstances. “It makes it less likely that businesses will be shuttered. It makes it less likely that people will die. It makes it more likely school will return.”

    "In other words, important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

    "Somewhere along the way, we became impatient — tragically so. I marvel at the great public works of yesteryear, because we can’t even accomplish basic infrastructure upgrades today. For the politicians deciding whether to approve them and the voters whose taxes would be directed toward them, the payoff is too far down the road. If we’re tyrannized by anything, it’s our demand for immediate gratification. That mind-set has robbed us of the necessary discipline and endurance to fight this pandemic."

    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girl
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

    important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

    This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

    Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
    • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

      @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

      important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

      This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

      Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

      CopperC Offline
      CopperC Offline
      Copper
      wrote on last edited by
      #14

      @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

      @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

      important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

      This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

      Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

      What is the good of society is debatable.

      taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
      • CopperC Copper

        @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

        @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

        important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

        This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

        Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

        What is the good of society is debatable.

        taiwan_girlT Offline
        taiwan_girlT Offline
        taiwan_girl
        wrote on last edited by
        #15

        @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

        @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

        @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

        important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

        This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

        Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

        What is the good of society is debatable.

        Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

        CopperC JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

          @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

          This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

          Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

          What is the good of society is debatable.

          Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

          CopperC Offline
          CopperC Offline
          Copper
          wrote on last edited by
          #16

          @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

          important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

          This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

          Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

          What is the good of society is debatable.

          Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

          It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

          It is going to start fights, it already has.

          It will needlessly frighten a lot of people.

          Of course there are a lot of very good reasons to advocate the mask. But it is not without problems, real problems, not just stupid lunkhead people.

          Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
          • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

            @Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:

            Crawling in a hole and pulling the dirt back over your head is the absolute most effective means of dealing with the virus

            That and, y'know, wearing a mask in public. Which 'Murricans equate to being forced to lay down in a ditch.

            JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #17

            @Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:

            @Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:

            Crawling in a hole and pulling the dirt back over your head is the absolute most effective means of dealing with the virus

            That and, y'know, wearing a mask in public. Which 'Murricans equate to being forced to lay down in a ditch.

            Some do. Thank God for it.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              Trump’s ‘plan’ is purely reactive and focused on minimizing blowback on him personally.

              It might simply be an unfortunate truth that societies with active Magat infections can’t fight viral ones.

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Loki
              wrote on last edited by
              #18

              @jon-nyc said in American Response to the Pandemic:

              Trump’s ‘plan’ is purely reactive and focused on minimizing blowback on him personally.

              It might simply be an unfortunate truth that societies with active Magat infections can’t fight viral ones.

              No one mentions that Fauci told us we had reason to believe Covid would die down in the summer. #becauseshutup

              1 Reply Last reply
              • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                What is the good of society is debatable.

                Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #19

                @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                What is the good of society is debatable.

                Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                You're moving the goalposts from a generalization to a specific. And then, only 30% of a specific.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • CopperC Copper

                  @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                  This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                  Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                  What is the good of society is debatable.

                  Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                  It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                  It is going to start fights, it already has.

                  It will needlessly frighten a lot of people.

                  Of course there are a lot of very good reasons to advocate the mask. But it is not without problems, real problems, not just stupid lunkhead people.

                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #20

                  @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                  important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                  This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                  Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                  What is the good of society is debatable.

                  Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                  It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                  Zero total identified cases.

                  I was only joking

                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                    @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                    This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                    Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                    What is the good of society is debatable.

                    Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                    It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                    Zero total identified cases.

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by Jolly
                    #21

                    @Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                    important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                    This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                    Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                    What is the good of society is debatable.

                    Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                    It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                    Zero total identified cases.

                    If they aren't identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                      This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                      Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                      What is the good of society is debatable.

                      Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                      It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                      Zero total identified cases.

                      If they aren't identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....

                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                      #22

                      @Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                      important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                      This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                      Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                      What is the good of society is debatable.

                      Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                      It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                      Zero total identified cases.

                      If they identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....

                      You can catch Covid 19 off somebody who is asymptomatic, has had no reason to be tested, and hasn't been identified. That's one of the reasons it spread so quickly.

                      There is no way to tell whether a county has zero infected people unless you test everybody.

                      My town currently has had two confirmed cases in the last week. You think that's how many people caught it in the last week?

                      I was only joking

                      CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                      • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                        @Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        @taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        @Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.

                        This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".

                        Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.

                        What is the good of society is debatable.

                        Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.

                        It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.

                        Zero total identified cases.

                        If they identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....

                        You can catch Covid 19 off somebody who is asymptomatic, has had no reason to be tested, and hasn't been identified. That's one of the reasons it spread so quickly.

                        There is no way to tell whether a county has zero infected people unless you test everybody.

                        My town currently has had two confirmed cases in the last week. You think that's how many people caught it in the last week?

                        CopperC Offline
                        CopperC Offline
                        Copper
                        wrote on last edited by Copper
                        #23

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                        There is no way to tell whether a county has zero infected people unless you test everybody.

                        Tell that to New Zealand

                        And what is the goal?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #24

                          My goal is to take reasonable precautions against getting sick, and to keep working.

                          Pretty simple, really.

                          I was only joking

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #25

                            flu

                            Please love yourself.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #26

                              What is the goal? Make sure all the beans are counted and accounted then take a decision so that all the beans counted will be there to account for in future accounting. Seems like an accountable goal regardless of how unreasonable it is.

                              Not convinced there needs to be a goal other than not crater the health care system.

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • CopperC Offline
                                CopperC Offline
                                Copper
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #27

                                Dr. Fauci at the ball game

                                Apparently it is real

                                alt text

                                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                • CopperC Copper

                                  Dr. Fauci at the ball game

                                  Apparently it is real

                                  alt text

                                  George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #28

                                  @Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                                  Dr. Fauci at the ball game

                                  Apparently it is real

                                  Yeah. Presumably the woman to his left is his wife, so she should be totally safe in terms of risk.

                                  He said the guy to his right was "a close friend."

                                  OK, "close friend," tell us about your potential exposure...

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua Letifer
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #29

                                    I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?

                                    Please love yourself.

                                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                      I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?

                                      George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #30

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                                      I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?

                                      I thought Trump was an asshole for not wearing a mask?

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #31

                                        No, no. His assholery predates Covid by decades.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • George KG George K

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                                          I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?

                                          I thought Trump was an asshole for not wearing a mask?

                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua Letifer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #32

                                          @George-K said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:

                                          I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?

                                          I thought Trump was an asshole for not wearing a mask?

                                          He is. And it's weird that in that news story, Fauci seems to not practice what he preaches. That seems crappy. But I'm an advocate of masks in public. Those who aren't but still criticize Fauci sound like bigger hypocrites than Fauci does.

                                          Please love yourself.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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