American Response to the Pandemic
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Frank Bruni's Column (Excerpted, But Not Much):
"Over the past week, both The Times and The Washington Post published ambitious examinations of this country’s disastrous response to the coronavirus, which rages “out of control” here, in The Post’s words, even though other nations “have rigorously driven infection rates nearly to zero.”
"I . . . read them with a particular question in mind, one that has consumed me for many weeks: What does the abject failure of the United States, the richest country in the world, tell us about ourselves? In the mirror of Covid-19, how is America reflected?
"Our struggle with this pandemic has convinced me that somewhere along the way, we went from celebrating individual liberty to fetishizing it, so that for too many Americans, all sense of civic obligation and communal good went out the window.
"That’s the root of the resistance to lockdowns that many other countries entered more quickly, implemented more broadly or adhered to more diligently. And it encompasses a suspicion of federal versus local mandates that’s overwrought and insufficiently flexible when a crisis of this magnitude comes along. We badly needed a more coordinated national response than we had the appetite or aptitude for. We still do.
"Somewhere along the way, we also developed an immature definition of freedom, conflating it with selfishness, convenience and personal comfort. That’s writ large in the freak-out over masks. In reality, they’re “a ticket to more freedom,” Gov. Jared Polis of Colorado said a few days ago when he instituted a requirement that Coloradans wear them in many circumstances. “It makes it less likely that businesses will be shuttered. It makes it less likely that people will die. It makes it more likely school will return.”
"In other words, important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
"Somewhere along the way, we became impatient — tragically so. I marvel at the great public works of yesteryear, because we can’t even accomplish basic infrastructure upgrades today. For the politicians deciding whether to approve them and the voters whose taxes would be directed toward them, the payoff is too far down the road. If we’re tyrannized by anything, it’s our demand for immediate gratification. That mind-set has robbed us of the necessary discipline and endurance to fight this pandemic."
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
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@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
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@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
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@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
It is going to start fights, it already has.
It will needlessly frighten a lot of people.
Of course there are a lot of very good reasons to advocate the mask. But it is not without problems, real problems, not just stupid lunkhead people.
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@Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:
Crawling in a hole and pulling the dirt back over your head is the absolute most effective means of dealing with the virus
That and, y'know, wearing a mask in public. Which 'Murricans equate to being forced to lay down in a ditch.
@Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:
Crawling in a hole and pulling the dirt back over your head is the absolute most effective means of dealing with the virus
That and, y'know, wearing a mask in public. Which 'Murricans equate to being forced to lay down in a ditch.
Some do. Thank God for it.
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Trump’s ‘plan’ is purely reactive and focused on minimizing blowback on him personally.
It might simply be an unfortunate truth that societies with active Magat infections can’t fight viral ones.
@jon-nyc said in American Response to the Pandemic:
Trump’s ‘plan’ is purely reactive and focused on minimizing blowback on him personally.
It might simply be an unfortunate truth that societies with active Magat infections can’t fight viral ones.
No one mentions that Fauci told us we had reason to believe Covid would die down in the summer. #becauseshutup
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@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
You're moving the goalposts from a generalization to a specific. And then, only 30% of a specific.
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@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
It is going to start fights, it already has.
It will needlessly frighten a lot of people.
Of course there are a lot of very good reasons to advocate the mask. But it is not without problems, real problems, not just stupid lunkhead people.
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
Zero total identified cases.
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@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
Zero total identified cases.
@Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
Zero total identified cases.
If they aren't identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....
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@Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
Zero total identified cases.
If they aren't identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....
@Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
Zero total identified cases.
If they identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....
You can catch Covid 19 off somebody who is asymptomatic, has had no reason to be tested, and hasn't been identified. That's one of the reasons it spread so quickly.
There is no way to tell whether a county has zero infected people unless you test everybody.
My town currently has had two confirmed cases in the last week. You think that's how many people caught it in the last week?
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@Jolly said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@taiwan_girl said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Catseye3 said in American Response to the Pandemic:
important freedoms for all sometimes require slight adjustments by individuals. That’s not tyranny. That’s responsibility.
This is where I think that the US has "failed". Failed is probably not the correct word, it is not quite that bad - maybe "not done as well as we could have".
Sometimes the good of society has to come before what an individual thinks is best.
What is the good of society is debatable.
Agree, but in the case of virus, I don't think that anyone says that NOT wearing a mask will decrease the intensity of the virus.
It is required in Counties with zero total cases. It is impossible to decrease an intensity of zero.
Zero total identified cases.
If they identified, they don't exist. Falling tree in the forest, etc....
You can catch Covid 19 off somebody who is asymptomatic, has had no reason to be tested, and hasn't been identified. That's one of the reasons it spread so quickly.
There is no way to tell whether a county has zero infected people unless you test everybody.
My town currently has had two confirmed cases in the last week. You think that's how many people caught it in the last week?
@Doctor-Phibes said in American Response to the Pandemic:
There is no way to tell whether a county has zero infected people unless you test everybody.
Tell that to New Zealand
And what is the goal?
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My goal is to take reasonable precautions against getting sick, and to keep working.
Pretty simple, really.
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flu
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What is the goal? Make sure all the beans are counted and accounted then take a decision so that all the beans counted will be there to account for in future accounting. Seems like an accountable goal regardless of how unreasonable it is.
Not convinced there needs to be a goal other than not crater the health care system.
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@Copper said in American Response to the Pandemic:
Dr. Fauci at the ball game
Apparently it is real
Yeah. Presumably the woman to his left is his wife, so she should be totally safe in terms of risk.
He said the guy to his right was "a close friend."
OK, "close friend," tell us about your potential exposure...
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I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?
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I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?
@Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:
I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?
I thought Trump was an asshole for not wearing a mask?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:
I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?
I thought Trump was an asshole for not wearing a mask?
@George-K said in American Response to the Pandemic:
@Aqua-Letifer said in American Response to the Pandemic:
I thought that we can't all be cooped up and need to get back to our lives? I thought staying at home was tyranny?
I thought Trump was an asshole for not wearing a mask?
He is. And it's weird that in that news story, Fauci seems to not practice what he preaches. That seems crappy. But I'm an advocate of masks in public. Those who aren't but still criticize Fauci sound like bigger hypocrites than Fauci does.
