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  3. The Trump Trial

The Trump Trial

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Closing arguments in the rape trial of Trump. The defense presented no case, no witnesses, etc.

    Andy McCarthy's thoughts:

    Trump’s ‘grab her by the …’ tape may cost him a rape trial — and the presidency

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    Politically speaking, Donald Trump was not hurt by the infamous “Access Hollywood” tape.

    Though many initially saw it as a harpoon shot through his presidential bid, he won the 2016 election anyway.

    The former president may be getting his comeuppance this week.

    Trump has been sued in federal court by the former Elle magazine advice columnist, E. Jean Carroll, who claims that Trump raped her in the mid-nineties and then defamed her after she wrote publicly about it in 2019 in her book “What Do We Need Men For? A Modest Proposal.”

    The trial began its third week in Manhattan federal court on Monday with summations by opposing counsel.

    Because it is a civil case, Trump cannot be found guilty of a crime.

    At issue, instead, are civil claims — the New York state torts of battery and defamation.

    Nevertheless, if the jury of six men and three women were to find Trump liable, it would be based on the conclusion that he did indeed sexually assault Carroll and then, decades later, falsely assert that she made the whole thing up.

    Don’t be fooled by the fact that this case has flown under the radar, largely overlooked because of all the other investigations of Trump — the dubious indictment brought by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, and the more serious probes underway by, in particular, Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith, into Trump’s allegedly unlawful retention of classified intelligence at Mar-a-Lago, and his role in trying to prevent Congress from ratifying Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 election.

    If Trump is found liable for committing a sexual assault and assessed heavy damages, it will be a political earthquake.

    Nothing like that has ever happened to a significant candidate for the presidency, let alone to a former president.

    But the damage a jury finding of liability could do to Trump’s candidacy could be devastating.

    The Carroll team’s approach has been a clever one: make Trump the pivotal witness in the case.

    Not on the witness stand — Trump has not even shown up for the trial, much less testified in front of the jury.

    No, Carroll’s main witness is Trump as he appears in the “Access Hollywood” tape.

    Judge Lewis Kaplan ruled prior to the trial that Carroll, in addition to testifying about her claim that Trump raped her in a dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman, would be permitted to play the tape for the jury.

    Not just that. She was also permitted to call as witnesses two other women who claim to have been sexually assaulted by the former president.

    Carroll’s lawyers did not play the recording in the abstract — the way the public has heard it, disconnected from any personal episode, with Trump dismissing it as “locker room talk.”

    Instead, they played it during the testimony of Natasha Stoynoff, who wept as she described for the jury an incident in which, she claims, Trump steered her into an empty Mar-a-Lago room and forcibly kissed and pressed up against her until he was suddenly interrupted by a butler’s entry.

    Thus, when the jury heard Trump bragging on the tape about being sexually aggressive with women, about kissing them and groping them without their consent, it was in the context of listening to a real person who said it happened to her.

    And as they listened, still ringing in the jurors’ ears was not only Carroll’s sordid story but also the testimony of Jessica Leeds, who claims Trump assaulted her in the small first-class cabin of an airplane, groping her and reaching up her skirt.

    These accounts match up with Trump’s own words describing what he bragged were his practices.

    In summation on Monday morning, Carroll’s chief lawyer, Roberta Kaplan (no relation to the judge) reminded the jury of Carroll’s description of the painfulness of the alleged rape — how Trump, she said, inserted his fingers into her private area before raping her.

    “He grabbed her by the p***y,” Kaplan exclaimed.

    Bracing language in a courtroom summation? Sure . . . but Kaplan was merely quoting Trump.

    She was trying to convince the jury that Trump’s “Access Hollywood” words were not just banter; they were real life with real victims.

    Will the strategy work? It might. There are significant questions about Carroll’s claims, not least that she can’t remember exactly when the rape happened, and that in the years afterwards she continued shopping at Bergdorf and watching Trump on “The Apprentice” — neither the scene nor the perp she described so traumatized her that she could no longer abide the sight of them.

    Carroll waited decades to go public and, as Trump’s lawyer Joe Tacopina alleges, was trying to sell a book.

    Moreover, Carroll and her witnesses – especially two friends to whom she made contemporaneous reports of the alleged rape — are strident opponents of Trump’s politics and have made themselves heroes on the Left for testifying against him.

    Still, Carroll made Trump her most consequential witness, thanks to that infamous tape. So, the question is whether Trump will be hung by his own words.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • 89th8 Offline
      89th8 Offline
      89th
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      You’d think a rape trial of a former president would’ve been something I knew about but it’s just another wave at the ocean.

      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
      • 89th8 89th

        You’d think a rape trial of a former president would’ve been something I knew about but it’s just another wave at the ocean.

        George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @89th said in The Trump Trial:

        You’d think a rape trial of a former president would’ve been something I knew about but it’s just another wave at the ocean.

        This has been really under the radar, hasn't it?

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Offline
          MikM Offline
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I’d give it all a lot more weight if it weren’t just one more shot at him.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          George KG 1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Mik

            I’d give it all a lot more weight if it weren’t just one more shot at him.

            George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @Mik said in The Trump Trial:

            I’d give it all a lot more weight if it weren’t just one more shot at him.

            Yes, but her allegations, iirc, predate his candidacy and presidency.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Yeah, but I think there is more than one discrepancy in her story.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girl
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                I have not heard much about this either, so dont have a understanding on the evidence if he is guilty or not.

                But, based on his history and comments (as the article above says), I would not be surprised if he were guilty.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  The cost of his impetuousness shows up at inconvenient times like this.

                  The fact that it would be almost inconceivable for him not to torpedo himself if he took the stand means they had to choose the second worst option, not testify at all.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  George KG AxtremusA 2 Replies Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    The cost of his impetuousness shows up at inconvenient times like this.

                    The fact that it would be almost inconceivable for him not to torpedo himself if he took the stand means they had to choose the second worst option, not testify at all.

                    George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @jon-nyc said in The Trump Trial:

                    The fact that it would be almost inconceivable for him not to torpedo himself if he took the stand

                    HIs lawyers certainly understood that. I wonder how they explained it to him.

                    "Listen, Mr. President. We have to talk about how you....present yourself during questioning. Your remarks tend to be unhinged a bit...off the cuff and could really screw you be damaging."

                    Even better, I wonder how he reacted.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      The cost of his impetuousness shows up at inconvenient times like this.

                      The fact that it would be almost inconceivable for him not to torpedo himself if he took the stand means they had to choose the second worst option, not testify at all.

                      AxtremusA Offline
                      AxtremusA Offline
                      Axtremus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      To @jon-nyc's point two posts up:

                      https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/e-jean-carroll-rape-trial-donald-trump-video-deposition.html

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Remember everyone, this being a civil trial, the standard isn’t “beyond a reasonable doubt”, rather it’s “preponderance of the evidence”.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          And the credibility of that evidence. Is there anything there other than one person saying another person did something? Anything sufficient to reach that judgement? I really don't know, as I haven't been following it.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Trump found liable.

                            $5M in damages.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Offline
                              MikM Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              I guess it was enough.

                              Not difficult to believe.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                They didn’t find the rape allegation true, just sexual assault and defamation.

                                Only non-witches get due process.

                                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  I don't even find the assault charge plausible.

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Of course you don’t.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                      Of course you don’t.

                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @jon-nyc said in The Trump Trial:

                                      Of course you don’t.

                                      No, most people that don't have TDS would say the same thing. As poisoned as the New York jury pool is, I doubt very seriously Trump could get a fair trial.

                                      This is bullshit. You know it, I know it.

                                      Don't pretend it's something different.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        How is it not even plausible when he copped to the very behavior on tape?

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          How is it not even plausible when he copped to the very behavior on tape?

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @jon-nyc said in The Trump Trial:

                                          How is it not even plausible when he copped to the very behavior on tape?

                                          Behavior yes, this particular incident, no.

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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