Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys
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That is a tragic story. I will admit, and I know it's probably rude of me, but I'd have to imagine they could've afforded a cheap flight or drive to a state that allows abortion.
That being said, is an early induction of labor considered abortion? I know the doctor recommended that but later decided they wouldn't perform an early induction because of the liability.
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wrote on 4 May 2023, 12:55 last edited by
Nor am I.
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That is a tragic story. I will admit, and I know it's probably rude of me, but I'd have to imagine they could've afforded a cheap flight or drive to a state that allows abortion.
That being said, is an early induction of labor considered abortion? I know the doctor recommended that but later decided they wouldn't perform an early induction because of the liability.
wrote on 4 May 2023, 12:56 last edited by Axtremus 5 Apr 2023, 13:08@89th said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
… but I'd have to imagine they could've afforded a cheap flight or drive to a state that allows abortion.
Specific to this case, it’s reported in the article that “The only options were to go out of state to get an abortion or to carry the baby to full term, and Dorbert and her husband didn’t have the money to travel.”
More generally, even if they can, they should not have to.
In practice, however, all other states near Florida also have strict anti-abortion laws. Up until mid-April, Florida was itself the “go to” state for pregnant women in the region seeking to abort.
As for air travel, typically airlines allow pregnant women to fly up to 36 weeks, and that’s for otherwise healthy women with no other risk factor. And it may not be a “single trip” affair — for good reasons, the doctor may want to examine the patient first before even allowing the patient to schedule the procedure. Then you are looking at at least two round trips.
Plus going out of state also means going outside their healthcare insurance’s network — that also often translates to higher costs for the patient.
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wrote on 4 May 2023, 13:01 last edited by
True, GA bans at 6 weeks, AL ban is outright, SC at 21 weeks. This girl probably would have had to come as far as DC or even PA.
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wrote on 4 May 2023, 13:11 last edited by Jolly 5 Apr 2023, 22:33
There are only a handful of states that permit abortion at >24 weeks. As it should be. Left up to me, it would be none of them.
Bad law is made on isolated cases.
Florida has passed the law, but not yet implemented it, to ban abortion after 6 weeks. As a practical matter, I think that most states eventually change to something in the neighborhood of of 12-20 weeks.
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There are only a handful of states that permit abortion at >24 weeks. As it should be. Left up to me, it would be none of them.
Bad law is made on isolated cases.
Florida has passed the law, but not yet implemented it, to ban abortion after 6 weeks. As a practical matter, I think that most states eventually change to something in the neighborhood of of 12-20 weeks.
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wrote on 4 May 2023, 13:14 last edited by
Yep.
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wrote on 4 May 2023, 16:12 last edited by
@Jolly said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
Yep.
What’s the point in forcing a woman to carry a doomed baby to term? What is gained by it?
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There are only a handful of states that permit abortion at >24 weeks. As it should be. Left up to me, it would be none of them.
Bad law is made on isolated cases.
Florida has passed the law, but not yet implemented it, to ban abortion after 6 weeks. As a practical matter, I think that most states eventually change to something in the neighborhood of of 12-20 weeks.
wrote on 4 May 2023, 16:53 last edited by Jolly 5 Apr 2023, 16:54@Jolly said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
Bad law is made on isolated cases.
I repeat.
At the time, I think Florida's law was 22 weeks. That's reasonable. Her life was not in danger.
And...I've seen miracles with no medical explanation. I've seen ultrasounds that were faulty. I've seen bad diagnoses made.
Sometimes, you play the hand that God gives you. Man is an imperfect being living in an imperfect world. Take every library and every last electron of the internet, combine all that knowledge and nobody will have all the answers. Not me, not you, not any mortal.
There is an answer. There is a reason. Just not here.
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@Jolly said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
Bad law is made on isolated cases.
I repeat.
At the time, I think Florida's law was 22 weeks. That's reasonable. Her life was not in danger.
And...I've seen miracles with no medical explanation. I've seen ultrasounds that were faulty. I've seen bad diagnoses made.
Sometimes, you play the hand that God gives you. Man is an imperfect being living in an imperfect world. Take every library and every last electron of the internet, combine all that knowledge and nobody will have all the answers. Not me, not you, not any mortal.
There is an answer. There is a reason. Just not here.
wrote on 4 May 2023, 17:36 last edited by@Jolly said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
Sometimes, you play the hand that God gives you.
Just think of it as:
“God gave you (the capacity to figure out) ways to (safely) abort pregnancies.”
Use it, play the card.Further extensions:
“God gave you the (the capacity to figure out) ways to detect life-threatening fetal abnormalities.“
Use it, play the card.What you have not been given:
”Gad has not given you a way to save the life of the fetus/baby born with no kidneys.”
I would, of course, tell you to “use it” and even support using our tax money (“government funded healthcare”) to save such lives, but as it is you don‘t have it (“Gad has not given you this.”) -
@Jolly said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
Sometimes, you play the hand that God gives you.
Just think of it as:
“God gave you (the capacity to figure out) ways to (safely) abort pregnancies.”
Use it, play the card.Further extensions:
“God gave you the (the capacity to figure out) ways to detect life-threatening fetal abnormalities.“
Use it, play the card.What you have not been given:
”Gad has not given you a way to save the life of the fetus/baby born with no kidneys.”
I would, of course, tell you to “use it” and even support using our tax money (“government funded healthcare”) to save such lives, but as it is you don‘t have it (“Gad has not given you this.”)wrote on 4 May 2023, 19:56 last edited by@Axtremus said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
@Jolly said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
Sometimes, you play the hand that God gives you.
Just think of it as:
“God gave you (the capacity to figure out) ways to (safely) abort pregnancies.”
Use it, play the card.Further extensions:
“God gave you the (the capacity to figure out) ways to detect life-threatening fetal abnormalities.“
Use it, play the card.What you have not been given:
”Gad has not given you a way to save the life of the fetus/baby born with no kidneys.”
I would, of course, tell you to “use it” and even support using our tax money (“government funded healthcare”) to save such lives, but as it is you don‘t have it (“Gad has not given you this.”)Lad, I don't mock God.
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wrote on 4 May 2023, 21:42 last edited by
A safe abortion. That’s rich. I hear they do safe executions in the prison system too.
It’s second only to abortion described as women’s healthcare.
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@89th A lot of these post-Dobbs laws were passed in a hurry and are pretty broadly written, so I’m not surprised the doctors wouldn’t take the risk.
wrote on 5 May 2023, 02:45 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
@89th A lot of these post-Dobbs laws were passed in a hurry and are pretty broadly written, ...
On that point, just today the NC Republican controlled legislature pushed through a 12-week abortion ban in 48 hours:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/04/north-carolina-abortion-ban/
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wrote on 5 May 2023, 14:54 last edited by jon-nyc 5 May 2023, 14:54
Yes, but…
The North Carolina Senate voted 29-20 on Thursday, entirely along party lines, to advance legislation prohibiting most abortions after 12 weeks of gestation, with exceptions for rape and incest (up to 20 weeks of gestation), “life-limiting anomalies,” (up to 24 weeks), and life of the mother (no limit).
That’s all this woman would have needed.
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wrote on 5 May 2023, 15:00 last edited by
We’re in NC this weekend and have of course heard a lot about this on the news. It also includes up to 24 weeks for a malformed child and no limit for life of the mother situations. It’s not extreme.
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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wrote on 5 May 2023, 15:05 last edited by
If the headline 12 were 15 I’d be perfectly fine with it.
Well, scratch that. I’m not sure why they limit unviable fetus to 24 weeks. Not sure I see the need for a limit at all.
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We’re in NC this weekend and have of course heard a lot about this on the news. It also includes up to 24 weeks for a malformed child and no limit for life of the mother situations. It’s not extreme.
wrote on 5 May 2023, 15:09 last edited by@Mik said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
It’s not extreme.
And it is the standard in repressive countries like Latvia, Greece, Germany, Switzerland.....
Funny how that never gets mentioned.
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@89th A lot of these post-Dobbs laws were passed in a hurry and are pretty broadly written, so I’m not surprised the doctors wouldn’t take the risk.
wrote on 14 May 2023, 00:24 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
@89th A lot of these post-Dobbs laws were passed in a hurry and are pretty broadly written, so I’m not surprised the doctors wouldn’t take the risk.
On that point, in Idaho:
”Idaho’s murky abortion law is driving doctors out of the state“
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/us/idaho-abortion-doctors-drain/index.html
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@jon-nyc said in Forced to carry a baby to term with no kidneys:
@89th A lot of these post-Dobbs laws were passed in a hurry and are pretty broadly written, so I’m not surprised the doctors wouldn’t take the risk.
On that point, in Idaho:
”Idaho’s murky abortion law is driving doctors out of the state“
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/us/idaho-abortion-doctors-drain/index.html
wrote on 14 May 2023, 00:36 last edited by George K@Axtremus the article says that of the 117 docs surveyed, about ⅔ "answered “yes” or “maybe” when asked if they were considering leaving the state at least in part because of the abortion laws."
How many have actually left?
From what I can see, the article cites one.
ETA:
Miller says five of the nine remaining full-time maternal-fetal medicine physicians in the state will have left by the end of this year.
That's more than a bit deceptive. I found 25 Obstetricians in Idaho right here.
And because there are no ob-gyn residencies in Idaho, finding doctors willing to relocate given the abortion laws on the books is a real challenge.
That may or may not be the case, but there are no anesthesiology residencies in Idaho either, so, there's that.
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@Axtremus the article says that of the 117 docs surveyed, about ⅔ "answered “yes” or “maybe” when asked if they were considering leaving the state at least in part because of the abortion laws."
How many have actually left?
From what I can see, the article cites one.
ETA:
Miller says five of the nine remaining full-time maternal-fetal medicine physicians in the state will have left by the end of this year.
That's more than a bit deceptive. I found 25 Obstetricians in Idaho right here.
And because there are no ob-gyn residencies in Idaho, finding doctors willing to relocate given the abortion laws on the books is a real challenge.
That may or may not be the case, but there are no anesthesiology residencies in Idaho either, so, there's that.
wrote on 14 May 2023, 01:11 last edited by@George-K, you certainly make very good points and your skepticism about the article is well taken. The law has just been signed recently. It will take some time to see measurable impacts, including how many Obstetricians leave (or not leave) the state.
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A Axtremus referenced this topic on 22 Sept 2023, 09:23
