The Ukraine war thread

[Horace]

@xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

People are hoping, but "expecting" is probably a strong word.

Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

Who knows? There's no pat playbook, as much as everybody would like to hand-wave from their armchair the existence of such a playbook that we're so obviously violating. Maybe we can argue about this specific situation rather than worrying about the precedent, while for some reason not worrying about the precedent of letting Russia slowly consume Ukraine.

[Horace]

@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Horace

Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

I am sure you will be consistently uneasy with any respect you may have for me, as I continue to post my opinions. But I doubt you'll find any blanket endorsements from me of anybody, including Carlson.

[Renauda]

I do hope so. I continue to have faith in you.

[Horace]

@89th said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

SecState's take:

Link to video

Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

So you don't grant the point - at all - that Trump doesn't necessarily want to go full-bore on the anti-Russia rhetoric, while his goal is to facilitate negotiations between them and Ukraine? There's no practical point there? Biden was free to say whatever because he never talked to Russia, and never intended to.

[xenon]

I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

[Horace]

@xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

The Ukraine situation was doing a swell job of defeating the west, revealing its self-righteous rhetoric to be powerless and empty, well before Trump came back into power.

[xenon]

Sure - but I don’t think the delicate genius was going to do anything about it. I guess with that nihilistic attitude, yesterday didn’t really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

[89th]

@xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

That’s the thing. Even when the lady was discussing taking guns away from people with mental breakdowns, he kept asking “so is that how it works now?” He doesn’t have a clue BUT in his defense sometimes you can lead by knowing the macro picture without the details. That being said, if you asked Trump when did Ukraine become a country? He’d probably be like “not sure, the late 80s?”

[89th]

@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

@89th said in The Ukraine war thread:

@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

SecState's take:

Link to video

Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

So you don't grant the point - at all - that Trump doesn't necessarily want to go full-bore on the anti-Russia rhetoric, while his goal is to facilitate negotiations between them and Ukraine? There's no practical point there? Biden was free to say whatever because he never talked to Russia, and never intended to.

Oh I totally grant that point. It’s not what Trump is saying about Russia, it’s what Trump is saying about Ukraine that is horrendous.

[xenon]

I also find it weird that he’s playing the best cards we have (e.g. no NATO membership for Ukraine) without getting to the negotiation table… but again, he’s the deal maker.

[89th]

For example. Trump could’ve said “I understand your view of Putin and he sure has negotiated in bad faith before but I’m good at making deals and will work with him to bring this war to an end with security guarantees for Ukraine and no loss of land.”

[xenon]

I think that’s what Trump would have said @89th , JD doesn’t know how to play the bullshitter game well.

[89th]

Fair point

[xenon]

Which betrays that JD doesn’t think Trump has a plan. Because if he did, (assuming he shares it with JD). Why would JD get pissy about it? He’d be like “just wait and see padawan”

[89th]

Yeah maybe. I think there’s possible frustration from JD knowing that a real deal with Putin is likely impossible and they didn’t want Zelenskyy messing up the first mineral rights deal (and possibly only deal) headline.

[jon-nyc]

@xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

I’m also still waiting for that Obamacare replacement that’s two weeks away…

First we have to get through infrastructure week.

[Copper]

Mr. Trump is a producer, actor and writer. How does that get forgotten?

His IMDB credits go on for pages.

That talk with Zelenskyy was rehearsed for weeks before the cameras turned on.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0874339/?ref_=tt_ov_st_1

[jon-nyc]

When you lose the WSJ.

[Horace]

You have to squint pretty hard not to give Zelensky any agency in that victory for Russia. Which puts his inadequacies as a statesman in even sharper relief.

[jon-nyc]

No doubt he handled it poorly.