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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • HoraceH Horace

    SecState's take:

    Link to video

    89th8 Offline
    89th8 Offline
    89th
    wrote on last edited by
    #2604

    @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

    SecState's take:

    Link to video

    Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

    HoraceH LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
    👍
    • X Offline
      X Offline
      xenon
      wrote on last edited by
      #2605

      There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

      Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

      89th8 HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
      • X Offline
        X Offline
        xenon
        wrote on last edited by
        #2606

        I’m also still waiting for that Obamacare replacement that’s two weeks away…

        jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #2607

          @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

          Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

          Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

          Education is extremely important.

          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
          • X xenon

            There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

            Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

            89th8 Offline
            89th8 Offline
            89th
            wrote on last edited by
            #2608

            @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

            There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

            Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

            I’m curious too. Unfortunately we’ve seen this a thousand times. If it fails, it’s someone else’s fault. Before Trump if any US president ever gave Putin a deal (land etc) after he invaded and caused 1.5 million deaths, it would’ve been conservative top shelf blasphemy.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Horace

              @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

              Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

              Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

              RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by Renauda
              #2609

              @Horace

              Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

              Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

              Elbows up!

              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
              • X xenon

                There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #2610

                @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                People are hoping, but "expecting" is probably a strong word.

                Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                Who knows? There's no pat playbook, as much as everybody would like to hand-wave from their armchair the existence of such a playbook that we're so obviously violating. Maybe we can argue about this specific situation rather than worrying about the precedent, while for some reason not worrying about the precedent of letting Russia slowly consume Ukraine.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • RenaudaR Renauda

                  @Horace

                  Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

                  Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #2611

                  @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Horace

                  Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

                  I am sure you will be consistently uneasy with any respect you may have for me, as I continue to post my opinions. But I doubt you'll find any blanket endorsements from me of anybody, including Carlson.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #2612

                    I do hope so. I continue to have faith in you.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • 89th8 89th

                      @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                      SecState's take:

                      Link to video

                      Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #2613

                      @89th said in The Ukraine war thread:

                      @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                      SecState's take:

                      Link to video

                      Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                      So you don't grant the point - at all - that Trump doesn't necessarily want to go full-bore on the anti-Russia rhetoric, while his goal is to facilitate negotiations between them and Ukraine? There's no practical point there? Biden was free to say whatever because he never talked to Russia, and never intended to.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                      • X Offline
                        X Offline
                        xenon
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #2614

                        I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                        I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                        I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                        HoraceH 89th8 2 Replies Last reply
                        • X xenon

                          I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                          I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                          I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                          HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #2615

                          @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                          I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                          I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                          I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                          The Ukraine situation was doing a swell job of defeating the west, revealing its self-righteous rhetoric to be powerless and empty, well before Trump came back into power.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • X Offline
                            X Offline
                            xenon
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #2616

                            Sure - but I don’t think the delicate genius was going to do anything about it. I guess with that nihilistic attitude, yesterday didn’t really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • X xenon

                              I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                              I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                              I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                              89th8 Offline
                              89th8 Offline
                              89th
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #2617

                              @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                              I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                              I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                              I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                              That’s the thing. Even when the lady was discussing taking guns away from people with mental breakdowns, he kept asking “so is that how it works now?” He doesn’t have a clue BUT in his defense sometimes you can lead by knowing the macro picture without the details. That being said, if you asked Trump when did Ukraine become a country? He’d probably be like “not sure, the late 80s?”

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Horace

                                @89th said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                SecState's take:

                                Link to video

                                Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                                So you don't grant the point - at all - that Trump doesn't necessarily want to go full-bore on the anti-Russia rhetoric, while his goal is to facilitate negotiations between them and Ukraine? There's no practical point there? Biden was free to say whatever because he never talked to Russia, and never intended to.

                                89th8 Offline
                                89th8 Offline
                                89th
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #2618

                                @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                @89th said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                SecState's take:

                                Link to video

                                Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                                So you don't grant the point - at all - that Trump doesn't necessarily want to go full-bore on the anti-Russia rhetoric, while his goal is to facilitate negotiations between them and Ukraine? There's no practical point there? Biden was free to say whatever because he never talked to Russia, and never intended to.

                                Oh I totally grant that point. It’s not what Trump is saying about Russia, it’s what Trump is saying about Ukraine that is horrendous.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • X Offline
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                                  xenon
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #2619

                                  I also find it weird that he’s playing the best cards we have (e.g. no NATO membership for Ukraine) without getting to the negotiation table… but again, he’s the deal maker.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • 89th8 Offline
                                    89th8 Offline
                                    89th
                                    wrote on last edited by 89th
                                    #2620

                                    For example. Trump could’ve said “I understand your view of Putin and he sure has negotiated in bad faith before but I’m good at making deals and will work with him to bring this war to an end with security guarantees for Ukraine and no loss of land.”

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • X Offline
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                                      xenon
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #2621

                                      I think that’s what Trump would have said @89th , JD doesn’t know how to play the bullshitter game well.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • 89th8 Offline
                                        89th8 Offline
                                        89th
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #2622

                                        Fair point

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • X Offline
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                                          xenon
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #2623

                                          Which betrays that JD doesn’t think Trump has a plan. Because if he did, (assuming he shares it with JD). Why would JD get pissy about it? He’d be like “just wait and see padawan”

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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