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  3. French Government Says No to Virginity Test

French Government Says No to Virginity Test

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  • C Catseye3
    4 Apr 2021, 14:31

    @brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

    Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?

    In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."

    J Offline
    J Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 14:32 last edited by
    #88

    @catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

    @brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

    Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?

    In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."

    Want to explain that one?

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    C 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 14:34
    • J Jolly
      4 Apr 2021, 14:32

      @catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

      @brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

      Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?

      In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."

      Want to explain that one?

      C Offline
      C Offline
      Catseye3
      wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 14:34 last edited by
      #89

      @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

      Want to explain that one?

      You'd have to check with Trevanian. Oh wait, you can't; he's dead.

      Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

      1 Reply Last reply
      • H Offline
        H Offline
        Horace
        wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 14:36 last edited by
        #90

        Arabs have small penises? That sounds racist.

        I am against racism, full stop. I believe racism is wrong.

        Also murder, and misogyny. Wrong, full stop.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • C Catseye3
          4 Apr 2021, 14:31

          @brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

          Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?

          In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."

          B Offline
          B Offline
          brenda
          wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 14:38 last edited by
          #91

          @catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

          @brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

          Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?

          In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."

          LOLOL

          1 Reply Last reply
          • H Horace
            4 Apr 2021, 14:22

            @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

            But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?

            That sounds suspiciously like nuance.

            R Offline
            R Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 16:26 last edited by
            #92

            @horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

            @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

            But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?

            That sounds suspiciously like nuance.

            Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.

            Elbows up!

            H 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 16:28
            • R Renauda
              4 Apr 2021, 16:26

              @horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

              @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

              But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?

              That sounds suspiciously like nuance.

              Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.

              H Offline
              H Offline
              Horace
              wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 16:28 last edited by
              #93

              @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

              @horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

              @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

              But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?

              That sounds suspiciously like nuance.

              Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.

              Careful, your value system is speaking louder than your nuance is, again.

              Education is extremely important.

              R 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 16:34
              • H Horace
                4 Apr 2021, 16:28

                @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                @horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?

                That sounds suspiciously like nuance.

                Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.

                Careful, your value system is speaking louder than your nuance is, again.

                R Offline
                R Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 16:34 last edited by
                #94

                @horace

                Yes I admit that the irrelevant anachronism accusation was being a bit harsh and judgmental. Fear of secularism would have sufficed.

                Elbows up!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • D Online
                  D Online
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 16:50 last edited by Doctor Phibes 4 Apr 2021, 16:51
                  #95

                  It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.

                  Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.

                  Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.

                  I was only joking

                  J 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 17:45
                  • B brenda
                    4 Apr 2021, 14:24

                    @copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                    Assault, murder, extortion, kidnapping, threats, stalking - all, and more, illegal.

                    Why outlaw a specifically religious activity, especially if all parties consent?

                    Because they don't consent. They are forced to be tested, too.

                    C Offline
                    C Offline
                    Copper
                    wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 16:55 last edited by
                    #96

                    @brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                    @copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                    Assault, murder, extortion, kidnapping, threats, stalking - all, and more, illegal.

                    Why outlaw a specifically religious activity, especially if all parties consent?

                    Because they don't consent. They are forced to be tested, too.

                    Wouldn't that be some kind of assault?

                    I'd really be surprised if current laws didn't protect the woman.

                    Maybe not.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • D Doctor Phibes
                      4 Apr 2021, 16:50

                      It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.

                      Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.

                      Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 17:45 last edited by
                      #97

                      @doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                      It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.

                      Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.

                      Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.

                      Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families. Then, maybe the practice dies as they marry nice French lads and produce children of their own...

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      R 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 18:28
                      • J Jolly
                        4 Apr 2021, 17:45

                        @doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                        It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.

                        Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.

                        Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.

                        Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families. Then, maybe the practice dies as they marry nice French lads and produce children of their own...

                        R Offline
                        R Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 18:28 last edited by
                        #98

                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                        Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                        For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                        Elbows up!

                        J 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 20:03
                        • D Online
                          D Online
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 19:29 last edited by
                          #99

                          Also, as any civilized person will tell you, the correct word for French fries is ‘chips’.

                          I was only joking

                          R 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 19:57
                          • D Doctor Phibes
                            4 Apr 2021, 19:29

                            Also, as any civilized person will tell you, the correct word for French fries is ‘chips’.

                            R Offline
                            R Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 19:57 last edited by
                            #100

                            @doctor-phibes

                            Chips topped with malt vinegar and a bit of salt.

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • R Renauda
                              4 Apr 2021, 18:28

                              @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                              Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                              For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                              J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 20:03 last edited by
                              #101

                              @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                              @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                              Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                              For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                              Or Canadians.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              R 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 20:09
                              • J Jolly
                                4 Apr 2021, 20:03

                                @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                Or Canadians.

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 20:09 last edited by Renauda 4 Apr 2021, 20:09
                                #102

                                @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                Or Canadians.

                                We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                A big difference.

                                Elbows up!

                                J 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 20:12
                                • R Renauda
                                  4 Apr 2021, 20:09

                                  @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                  For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                  Or Canadians.

                                  We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                  A big difference.

                                  J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 20:12 last edited by Jolly 4 Apr 2021, 20:13
                                  #103

                                  @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                  Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                  For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                  Or Canadians.

                                  We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                  A big difference.

                                  I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  R 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 20:20
                                  • J Jolly
                                    4 Apr 2021, 20:12

                                    @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                    For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                    Or Canadians.

                                    We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                    A big difference.

                                    I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.

                                    R Offline
                                    R Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 20:20 last edited by Renauda 4 Apr 2021, 20:26
                                    #104

                                    @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                    Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                    For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                    Or Canadians.

                                    We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                    A big difference.

                                    I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.

                                    I don't believe that for a second. I think America shattered that myth of itself a long time ago. You just find secularism abhorrent. I do not.

                                    Elbows up!

                                    J 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 21:06
                                    • D Online
                                      D Online
                                      Doctor Phibes
                                      wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 20:32 last edited by
                                      #105

                                      Maybe all the Muslims will come to America.

                                      I was only joking

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • R Renauda
                                        4 Apr 2021, 20:20

                                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                        For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                        Or Canadians.

                                        We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                        A big difference.

                                        I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.

                                        I don't believe that for a second. I think America shattered that myth of itself a long time ago. You just find secularism abhorrent. I do not.

                                        J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 21:06 last edited by
                                        #106

                                        @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                        Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                        For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                        Or Canadians.

                                        We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                        A big difference.

                                        I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.

                                        I don't believe that for a second. I think America shattered that myth of itself a long time ago. You just find secularism abhorrent. I do not.

                                        I think secularism is a dead end road, littered with the remains of shattered hope and an ever-changing belief system. A series of vignettes of situational ethics and moral uncertainty, roaring loud and signifying nothing.

                                        Other than that, I'm sure some people like it...

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        R 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2021, 23:07
                                        • J Jolly
                                          4 Apr 2021, 21:06

                                          @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                          @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                          @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                          @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                          @renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                          @jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

                                          Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.

                                          For not taking advice from a few Americans?

                                          Or Canadians.

                                          We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.

                                          A big difference.

                                          I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.

                                          I don't believe that for a second. I think America shattered that myth of itself a long time ago. You just find secularism abhorrent. I do not.

                                          I think secularism is a dead end road, littered with the remains of shattered hope and an ever-changing belief system. A series of vignettes of situational ethics and moral uncertainty, roaring loud and signifying nothing.

                                          Other than that, I'm sure some people like it...

                                          R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 23:07 last edited by
                                          #107

                                          @jolly

                                          Yes you are correct, some people do like secularism and what it brings to the modern world.

                                          I am one of those people and will continue to advocate for it.

                                          Elbows up!

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