French Government Says No to Virginity Test
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@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly These young women are often forced to do this. Even if they try to escape, their fathers and brothers will hunt for them and kill them.
Then address the force. That is illegal. Heck, bring back the guillotine, and invite the public for a picnic and execution, same as would be done in Saudi Arabia.
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
That sounds suspiciously like nuance.
Education is extremely important.
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Assault, murder, extortion, kidnapping, threats, stalking - all, and more, illegal.
Why outlaw a specifically religious activity, especially if all parties consent?
@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Assault, murder, extortion, kidnapping, threats, stalking - all, and more, illegal.
Why outlaw a specifically religious activity, especially if all parties consent?
Because they don't consent. They are forced to be tested, too.
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@jolly Agreed. That should also include testing for virginity, which is also often forced. The problem is that the young women are forced to do that, too, otherwise they are deemed to be admittedly no longer virgin. Guess what happens to them then?
We're right back to where we started with this discussion. I see these as linked.
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families? Does their religious freedom include forced testing? If women cannot decline testing without risking their lives, is that part of religious freedom?
Think what you want to think. I know there is no changing your mind nor mine.
@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?
In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?
In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."
@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?
In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."
Want to explain that one?
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@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?
In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."
Want to explain that one?
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@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?
In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."
@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Is this testing religion or just historical practices to keep women subjugated in their families?
In his book Shibumi, Trevanian writes this: "Virginity is important to Arabs, who dread comparison, and with good reason."
LOLOL
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
That sounds suspiciously like nuance.
@horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
That sounds suspiciously like nuance.
Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.
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@horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
That sounds suspiciously like nuance.
Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
That sounds suspiciously like nuance.
Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.
Careful, your value system is speaking louder than your nuance is, again.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@horace said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
That sounds suspiciously like nuance.
Sounds more like fear of becoming an irrelevant anachronism.
Careful, your value system is speaking louder than your nuance is, again.
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It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.
Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.
Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.
I was only joking
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@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Assault, murder, extortion, kidnapping, threats, stalking - all, and more, illegal.
Why outlaw a specifically religious activity, especially if all parties consent?
Because they don't consent. They are forced to be tested, too.
@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Assault, murder, extortion, kidnapping, threats, stalking - all, and more, illegal.
Why outlaw a specifically religious activity, especially if all parties consent?
Because they don't consent. They are forced to be tested, too.
Wouldn't that be some kind of assault?
I'd really be surprised if current laws didn't protect the woman.
Maybe not.
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It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.
Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.
Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.
@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.
Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.
Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families. Then, maybe the practice dies as they marry nice French lads and produce children of their own...
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@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
It's not just about honour killing, which I would hope everybody would say is a very bad thing, it's about girls and young women becoming completely ostracized from their families.
Obviously, outlawing virginity tests isn't going to change attitudes in of itself, but it sends a message that this isn't what we do.
Anyway, it's up to the French what they do, and a bunch of Americans telling them they're wrong is going to have about as much effect as renaming your French fries - which I'm sure we can all agree was a particularly meaningless bit of symbolism.
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families. Then, maybe the practice dies as they marry nice French lads and produce children of their own...
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Also, as any civilized person will tell you, the correct word for French fries is ‘chips’.
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Also, as any civilized person will tell you, the correct word for French fries is ‘chips’.
Chips topped with malt vinegar and a bit of salt.
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.
A big difference.
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@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.
A big difference.
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.
A big difference.
I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.
A big difference.
I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Then maybe they need to be ostracized from their families.
For not taking advice from a few Americans?
Or Canadians.
We are not advising, We are supporting institutional secularism in France. As we do in Quebec.
A big difference.
I'm supporting the right of people to live free without interference of government into their private lives. As we do in America. And as they supposedly do in France.
I don't believe that for a second. I think America shattered that myth of itself a long time ago. You just find secularism abhorrent. I do not.
Elbows up!
