Impeach!
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But more to George's points:
From Andrew Sullivan's essay on the subject of impeachment and removal: "Most obvious is the issue of time. There are only nine days remaining in the president’s term. It is not enough time to execute a credible process of impeachment and removal.
"It would be rational to start down that road only if Congress had concluded that the nation could not tolerate one more minute of Trump’s presidency. But House Democrats, the main proponents of impeachment, haven’t acted that way. They went home after the siege. They did not stay in town or rush back. At this point, they could not reconvene before Tuesday – probably later. More than a week would have lapsed. How could they credibly claim a need to dispense with all due process and rush to judgment when they have spent days sitting on their hands as if there were no emergency?
Then there are the Senate rules. Because the upper chamber is in recess until Jan. 19, it would take unanimous consent to reconvene. At least one senator would object, so that’s a non-starter. Practically speaking, even if the House rushed through the adoption of impeachment articles and appointed impeachment managers, a trial could not commence until right before or, much more likely, after Trump’s term expires at noon on Jan. 20."
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think it’s important for the history books to document that there were repercussions to a sitting president who . . . incited a mob that invaded the Capitol.
This, to answer George's why questions. Are the American people expected to make no response to the Jan 7 debacle?
The American people aren't all that concerned, unless they are part of the chattering class. I think many, if not most people recognize it for what it was and have little desire to let the MSM think for them.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Basically - you can’t kneecap peoples’ beliefs in the legitimacy of our elections on a selfish whim.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
I also don’t think it helps unify at all (which is what we somehow need). The practical effect will be to raise the temperature.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
s the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
But since he is both certain the election was stolen and that he can prove it, he would have nothing to worry about. Only if he were lying would jail time be an issue.
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If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
Great idea, let's start punishing politicians for life if they try to spin a story to their favor.
There won't be a politician left standing.
OK, by me.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
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@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
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@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
I'm worried the most about that. The people who are going to decide where we go next are us, not our leaders.
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@taiwan_girl said in Impeach!:
In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
There is nothing that Trump has done that rises to the level of a crime. To try and convict him of such is pure power politics. Banana republic or Soviet style politics.
The Left is already trying to silence Conservative voices in any way possible. Convicting somebody, including a former POTUS, of nonexistent crines mere for show, is a tipping point.
You want armed insurrection? You want a hot war?
Keep kicking that can down the road...
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Mitch McConnell, with nothing to lose, is pleased with impeachment:
Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country.
At the same time, Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump’s most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he should call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of the riot at the Capitol last week, according to three Republican officials briefed on the conversations.
While Mr. McCarthy has said he is personally opposed to impeachment, he and other party leaders have decided not to formally lobby Republicans to vote “no,” and an aide to Mr. McCarthy said he was open to a measure censuring Mr. Trump for his conduct. In private, Mr. McCarthy reached out to a leading House Democrat to see if the chamber would be willing to pursue a censure vote, though Speaker Nancy Pelosi has ruled it out.
Taken together, the stances of Congress’s two top Republicans — neither of whom has said publicly that Mr. Trump should resign or be impeached — reflected the politically challenging and fast-moving nature of the crisis that the party faces after the assault by a pro-Trump mob during a session to formalize President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
