Impeach!
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@aqua-letifer said in Impeach!:
let me point out the number of violent Anti-fa protesters seem to be the majority of those folks, not a minority.
No, I'll go with BLM. You willing to say most everyone at the DC protests were violent? If you do we can each save both of us a lot of time.
The extremes of the left are much more extreme. BLM advocating killing police for example and the delight of the democrat leaders to approve of this sort of behavior.
But if it will slow the whining I'll concede that they are both bad.
The problem is the leadership and how our media treat the extreme behavior.
The left loves the violence and encourages it openly, in no uncertain terms.
The right generally condemns immediately the violence. As Mr. Trump did last week. But the media continues to report that he encourages it.
And then Ms. Pelosi blames the violence on "whiteness". That is shocking, really shocking. And even worse nobody seems to care.
The words and actions seem to mean nothing, it is the reporting that establishes reality.
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Other than pure vindictiveness, what's the point?
I think it’s important for the history books to document that there were repercussions to a sitting president who refused to accept a free and fair election that he lost, lied about fraud and it being stolen, and incited a mob that invaded the Capitol.
think it’s important for the history books to document that there were repercussions to a sitting president who . . . incited a mob that invaded the Capitol.
This, to answer George's why questions. Are the American people expected to make no response to the Jan 7 debacle?
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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But more to George's points:
From Andrew Sullivan's essay on the subject of impeachment and removal: "Most obvious is the issue of time. There are only nine days remaining in the president’s term. It is not enough time to execute a credible process of impeachment and removal.
"It would be rational to start down that road only if Congress had concluded that the nation could not tolerate one more minute of Trump’s presidency. But House Democrats, the main proponents of impeachment, haven’t acted that way. They went home after the siege. They did not stay in town or rush back. At this point, they could not reconvene before Tuesday – probably later. More than a week would have lapsed. How could they credibly claim a need to dispense with all due process and rush to judgment when they have spent days sitting on their hands as if there were no emergency?
Then there are the Senate rules. Because the upper chamber is in recess until Jan. 19, it would take unanimous consent to reconvene. At least one senator would object, so that’s a non-starter. Practically speaking, even if the House rushed through the adoption of impeachment articles and appointed impeachment managers, a trial could not commence until right before or, much more likely, after Trump’s term expires at noon on Jan. 20."
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think it’s important for the history books to document that there were repercussions to a sitting president who . . . incited a mob that invaded the Capitol.
This, to answer George's why questions. Are the American people expected to make no response to the Jan 7 debacle?
The American people aren't all that concerned, unless they are part of the chattering class. I think many, if not most people recognize it for what it was and have little desire to let the MSM think for them.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Basically - you can’t kneecap peoples’ beliefs in the legitimacy of our elections on a selfish whim.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Basically - you can’t kneecap peoples’ beliefs in the legitimacy of our elections on a selfish whim.
It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
I also don’t think it helps unify at all (which is what we somehow need). The practical effect will be to raise the temperature.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
s the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
But since he is both certain the election was stolen and that he can prove it, he would have nothing to worry about. Only if he were lying would jail time be an issue.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Basically - you can’t kneecap peoples’ beliefs in the legitimacy of our elections on a selfish whim.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
Great idea, let's start punishing politicians for life if they try to spin a story to their favor.
There won't be a politician left standing.
OK, by me.
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Do what you want Nancy but weigh the pros and cons of Biden being effective go forward.
In no case will Trump be impeached before he leaves.
So is it worth it to take up right after the inauguration or as Clyborn suggests in 100 days.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
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@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
I'm worried the most about that. The people who are going to decide where we go next are us, not our leaders.
