Impeach!
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Basically - you can’t kneecap peoples’ beliefs in the legitimacy of our elections on a selfish whim.
It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Yes as it turns out, that rhetoric was inflammatory to an extent I wasn't anticipating. Impeach him if you will, but to think he and his supporters haven't already suffered a massive political/cultural loss by that idiocy is not in keeping with reality.
I also don’t think it helps unify at all (which is what we somehow need). The practical effect will be to raise the temperature.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
s the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
But since he is both certain the election was stolen and that he can prove it, he would have nothing to worry about. Only if he were lying would jail time be an issue.
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It was certainly a tragic, idiotic raid of the Capitol, but the handwringing over it, and not over the wider spread and higher death/economic toll riots of 2020 strikes me clearly as special pleading and opportunism.
To think the raid isn't a clear and established loss for Trump and his supporters is ridiculous. To say "there must be consequences" and imply there aren't any unless an impeachment happens, is also ridiculous.
I wasn’t for impeachment at first. I was viewing Jan 6 as a singular event.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
If you tell people the election was stolen (especially when you have next to zero evidence to that effect) - it’s reasonable to expect some people will think an insurrection is justified.
Basically - you can’t kneecap peoples’ beliefs in the legitimacy of our elections on a selfish whim.
If you broaden your scope to his rhetoric on willfully misleading people on the election being stolen - then you can make a case that there should be political consequences for that.
Great idea, let's start punishing politicians for life if they try to spin a story to their favor.
There won't be a politician left standing.
OK, by me.
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Do what you want Nancy but weigh the pros and cons of Biden being effective go forward.
In no case will Trump be impeached before he leaves.
So is it worth it to take up right after the inauguration or as Clyborn suggests in 100 days.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
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@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
@taiwan_girl that man will never go into the sunset. (Impeaching him may make things worse, though). Some day it will be fascinating to look back at all of this. What we got right, what we screwed up.
I'm worried the most about that. The people who are going to decide where we go next are us, not our leaders.
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In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
@taiwan_girl said in Impeach!:
In some ways, I would hope that if a trial reaches the Senate, that part of the defense would be to either validate or invalidate the President's assertions. Thus, if he "won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes," his actions and those of his followers were appropriate to invalidate a "rigged election". If as the Republican Attorney General and judges assert that there were only a handful (i.e. less than 10) fraudulant votes, then he should be convicted and sent to prison for a reasonable period of time.
I'm no hothead, but if you put Trump in jail, you better be prepared to fight.
Why? If the court system goes through the process and he is found guilty of some crime that causes him to go to jail, why would you fight for that?
(BTW, I do not think there should be impeachment. Let him "go into the sunset")
There is nothing that Trump has done that rises to the level of a crime. To try and convict him of such is pure power politics. Banana republic or Soviet style politics.
The Left is already trying to silence Conservative voices in any way possible. Convicting somebody, including a former POTUS, of nonexistent crines mere for show, is a tipping point.
You want armed insurrection? You want a hot war?
Keep kicking that can down the road...
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Mitch McConnell, with nothing to lose, is pleased with impeachment:
Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country.
At the same time, Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump’s most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he should call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of the riot at the Capitol last week, according to three Republican officials briefed on the conversations.
While Mr. McCarthy has said he is personally opposed to impeachment, he and other party leaders have decided not to formally lobby Republicans to vote “no,” and an aide to Mr. McCarthy said he was open to a measure censuring Mr. Trump for his conduct. In private, Mr. McCarthy reached out to a leading House Democrat to see if the chamber would be willing to pursue a censure vote, though Speaker Nancy Pelosi has ruled it out.
Taken together, the stances of Congress’s two top Republicans — neither of whom has said publicly that Mr. Trump should resign or be impeached — reflected the politically challenging and fast-moving nature of the crisis that the party faces after the assault by a pro-Trump mob during a session to formalize President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory.
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Mitch McConnell, with nothing to lose, is pleased with impeachment:
Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country.
At the same time, Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump’s most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he should call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of the riot at the Capitol last week, according to three Republican officials briefed on the conversations.
While Mr. McCarthy has said he is personally opposed to impeachment, he and other party leaders have decided not to formally lobby Republicans to vote “no,” and an aide to Mr. McCarthy said he was open to a measure censuring Mr. Trump for his conduct. In private, Mr. McCarthy reached out to a leading House Democrat to see if the chamber would be willing to pursue a censure vote, though Speaker Nancy Pelosi has ruled it out.
Taken together, the stances of Congress’s two top Republicans — neither of whom has said publicly that Mr. Trump should resign or be impeached — reflected the politically challenging and fast-moving nature of the crisis that the party faces after the assault by a pro-Trump mob during a session to formalize President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory.
Mitch McConnell, with nothing to lose, is pleased with impeachment:
Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country.
At the same time, Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump’s most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he should call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of the riot at the Capitol last week, according to three Republican officials briefed on the conversations.
While Mr. McCarthy has said he is personally opposed to impeachment, he and other party leaders have decided not to formally lobby Republicans to vote “no,” and an aide to Mr. McCarthy said he was open to a measure censuring Mr. Trump for his conduct. In private, Mr. McCarthy reached out to a leading House Democrat to see if the chamber would be willing to pursue a censure vote, though Speaker Nancy Pelosi has ruled it out.
Taken together, the stances of Congress’s two top Republicans — neither of whom has said publicly that Mr. Trump should resign or be impeached — reflected the politically challenging and fast-moving nature of the crisis that the party faces after the assault by a pro-Trump mob during a session to formalize President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory.
I'm not sure Mitch knows exactly what he is doing.
I understand he's feeling heat from the money people, but all the money in the world won't do you any good if your ground troops walk away.
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With such a slim majority in the House, what's the likelihood that this'll pass?
I put it at something like 100%. Maybe 50% chance we’ll see up to a small handful of GOP votes.
Several senior House Republicans join efforts.
The push for an unprecedented second impeachment of President Trump took a dramatic bipartisan turn Tuesday, as several senior House Republicans joined the Democratic effort to remove Trump for his role in inciting an angry mob to storm the Capitol last week and the White House braced for more defections.
Rep. Liz Cheney (Wyo.), the third-ranking House Republican, and Rep. John Katko (N.Y.), the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, both held Trump responsible for Wednesday’s violence. They were joined by Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.), a frequent Trump critic.
“The president of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack,” Cheney said in a statement, adding, “There has never been a greater betrayal by a president of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.”
And this:
A senior administration official said the White House expects at least a dozen House Republicans to support impeachment.
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Mitch McConnell, with nothing to lose, is pleased with impeachment:
Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country.
At the same time, Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump’s most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he should call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of the riot at the Capitol last week, according to three Republican officials briefed on the conversations.
While Mr. McCarthy has said he is personally opposed to impeachment, he and other party leaders have decided not to formally lobby Republicans to vote “no,” and an aide to Mr. McCarthy said he was open to a measure censuring Mr. Trump for his conduct. In private, Mr. McCarthy reached out to a leading House Democrat to see if the chamber would be willing to pursue a censure vote, though Speaker Nancy Pelosi has ruled it out.
Taken together, the stances of Congress’s two top Republicans — neither of whom has said publicly that Mr. Trump should resign or be impeached — reflected the politically challenging and fast-moving nature of the crisis that the party faces after the assault by a pro-Trump mob during a session to formalize President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory.
I'm not sure Mitch knows exactly what he is doing.
I understand he's feeling heat from the money people, but all the money in the world won't do you any good if your ground troops walk away.
Mitch McConnell, with nothing to lose, is pleased with impeachment:
Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country.
At the same time, Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump’s most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he should call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of the riot at the Capitol last week, according to three Republican officials briefed on the conversations.
While Mr. McCarthy has said he is personally opposed to impeachment, he and other party leaders have decided not to formally lobby Republicans to vote “no,” and an aide to Mr. McCarthy said he was open to a measure censuring Mr. Trump for his conduct. In private, Mr. McCarthy reached out to a leading House Democrat to see if the chamber would be willing to pursue a censure vote, though Speaker Nancy Pelosi has ruled it out.
Taken together, the stances of Congress’s two top Republicans — neither of whom has said publicly that Mr. Trump should resign or be impeached — reflected the politically challenging and fast-moving nature of the crisis that the party faces after the assault by a pro-Trump mob during a session to formalize President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory.
I'm not sure Mitch knows exactly what he is doing.
I understand he's feeling heat from the money people, but all the money in the world won't do you any good if your ground troops walk away.
Mitch is a human calculator. Usually a pretty good one. The example that always sticks in my mind is when he literally filibustered his own bill when the Dems unexpectedly went for it.
TBD. Maybe he knows more than we know.
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Impeachment is 100% appropriate. But for him, Wednesday would not have happened.
The moral hazard problem is real.
We must impose real costs on Hawley and Cruz. We can’t be doing this every 4 years.
