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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • Tom-KT Tom-K

    The only reason to end the war is to spare the suffering and death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. But if you don't care about that--then the war can go on forever. In that respect Putin is like Hamas--as long as they get what they want in the end human suffering really doesn't matter.

    RenaudaR Offline
    RenaudaR Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on last edited by Renauda
    #2981

    @Tom-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

    The only reason to end the war is to spare the suffering and death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. But if you don't care about that….. Putin is like Hamas--as long as they get what they want in the end human suffering really doesn't matter.

    No it doesn’t. What only matters is Putin’s own megalomaniac legacy to become the greatest Russian autocrat since Peter the Great. That legacy includes all of what remains of sovereign Ukraine and whatever other coveted imperial morsel he can steal by subterfuge or brute force.

    Elbows up!

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      Russians taking over Ukrainian territory doesn’t seem to end the suffering of the inhabitants.

      AxtremusA Offline
      AxtremusA Offline
      Axtremus
      wrote on last edited by
      #2982

      @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

      Russians taking over Ukrainian territory doesn’t seem to end the suffering of the inhabitants.

      But maybe it will result in a Nobel Prize.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #2983

        I wish they were wrong.

        “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

        • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
        1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by Renauda
          #2984

          Budapest Summit indefinitely postponed.

          https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gjp73gp41o

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • RenaudaR Offline
            RenaudaR Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on last edited by
            #2985

            Prescient commentary from 1990:

            https://www.facebook.com/reel/24591979110497672/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

            Elbows up!

            1 Reply Last reply
            • W Offline
              W Offline
              Wim
              wrote on last edited by
              #2986

              Lavrov losing Putin's support?

              Https://www.google.com/amp/s/telegrafi.com/en/amp/Lavrov-loses-Putin%2527s-support-after-failed-meeting-with-Trump-2674272039

              AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
              • W Wim

                Lavrov losing Putin's support?

                Https://www.google.com/amp/s/telegrafi.com/en/amp/Lavrov-loses-Putin%2527s-support-after-failed-meeting-with-Trump-2674272039

                AxtremusA Offline
                AxtremusA Offline
                Axtremus
                wrote on last edited by
                #2987

                @Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

                Lavrov losing Putin's support?

                What's the significance?

                1 Reply Last reply
                • RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #2988

                  Substantial, if true. I however remain sceptical that Lavrov is on Putin’s naughty list.

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #2989

                    Not being privy to internal Kremlin politics, it would seem unwise to alienate Lavrov who clearly has his own following. I doubt his absence means any more than was said.

                    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • RenaudaR Offline
                      RenaudaR Offline
                      Renauda
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #2990

                      Not likely that Lavrov would be entirely sidelined, his expertise in security and foreign affairs is too valuable. A very uncompromising person.

                      Elbows up!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #2991

                        I should add however, that he should henceforth avoid all windows located above the ground floor. After all, one can’t be too careful in these troubled times.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #2992

                          Ah, yes. The gravity of the situation.

                          "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #2993

                            I was heartened by this.

                            “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

                            • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Offline
                              MikM Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on last edited by Mik
                              #2994

                              The comments are interesting too. It's perhaps not apples to apples but it's a good development, nonetheless.

                              "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Offline
                                MikM Offline
                                Mik
                                wrote last edited by
                                #2995

                                Not a good development, but probably to be expected given the environment Ukraine endured under Soviet rule.

                                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-top-ministers-resign-amid-100m-corruption-scandal/ar-AA1Qjy5u

                                "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • W Offline
                                  W Offline
                                  Wim
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #2996

                                  Putin's power bloc cracking?

                                  https://www.kyivpost.com/videos/64394

                                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #2997

                                    Interesting.

                                    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • W Wim

                                      Putin's power bloc cracking?

                                      https://www.kyivpost.com/videos/64394

                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote last edited by Renauda
                                      #2998

                                      @Wim

                                      Makes sense in so far as Russia is not and never has been a monolith state. It also explains the internal struggle since the dissolution of the USSR between the siloviki (strongmen - security services, military) and the financial/industrial business elites. He correctly identifies Rosneft’s Igor Sechin as more than just associated with the FSB. Back in the 90’s Rosneft was the poor boy in the oil patch a badly managed state owned oil company that could not compete with its privatized competition like LUKOil or Surgutneftegaz. That all changed with the arrival of Putin in the Kremlin and during the course of his first two terms Rosneft came to be among the top three Russian oil companies. By now it is probably the most powerful in the country as in terms of production, refining capacity and lucrative financial assets outside of the oil business internally and abroad.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Offline
                                        MikM Offline
                                        Mik
                                        wrote last edited by Mik
                                        #2999

                                        Not a cheery article. I can't help but wonder where we would be if the west had supported Ukraine more whole-heartedly. All for using the frozen Russian assets.

                                        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-is-losing-touch-with-reality/ar-AA1QGvyu

                                        "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • MikM Mik

                                          Not a cheery article. I can't help but wonder where we would be if the west had supported Ukraine more whole-heartedly. All for using the frozen Russian assets.

                                          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-is-losing-touch-with-reality/ar-AA1QGvyu

                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #3000

                                          @Mik

                                          Not cheery but as one observer I read pointed out:

                                          To be clear, the fact Ukraine’s investigators — and its raucous free press — are absolutely going to town on elites is itself evidence of a living, breathing (if coughing) democracy worth defending. One need only glance over the border to recall the alternative.

                                          Can anyone send us the link to Russia’s credible investigation after the Panama Papers exposed Putin’s billions? Or how his best friend (Roldugin) earned billions playing a cello? (dude must be awesome). Or why the guy who made a two-hour documentary on Putin’s $1.4 billion Black Sea mega-palace ended up dead in a Putin prison?

                                          The absence of scandal in an autocracy is often just a symptom of its silent, dehumanising condition. And inversely (if uncomfortably), the presence of scandal in a democracy often just reflects the messy but sacred human agency underneath. And that’s worth fighting for, everywhere, every time.

                                          Elbows up!

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