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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Hamas attacks Israel

Hamas attacks Israel

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  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote last edited by
    #1365

    Trump peace plan details. I was going to give it its own thread but I’m pretty sure Hamas won’t accept it.

    If you don't take it, it can only good happen.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • A Offline
      A Offline
      AndyD
      wrote last edited by
      #1366

      I think you're right. Hamas will read to line 6 and the plan, which sounds so reasonable to me, will be ripped up.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • 89th8 Offline
        89th8 Offline
        89th
        wrote last edited by
        #1367

        Board of peace? More like... Bored of peace!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Offline
          MikM Offline
          Mik
          wrote last edited by
          #1368

          National building. We never learn.

          "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote last edited by
            #1369

            PA approves it.

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-authority-responds-to-trump-gaza-peace-plan/ar-AA1NAhNO

            "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote last edited by
              #1370

              Yeah, because it’s their path to controlling Gaza.

              If you don't take it, it can only good happen.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • MikM Offline
                MikM Offline
                Mik
                wrote last edited by
                #1371

                Of course.

                "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote last edited by
                  #1372

                  1397815f-658d-4289-92d5-6bd858abd707.jpeg

                  If you don't take it, it can only good happen.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote last edited by
                    #1373

                    If it were genocide it would have been over a year or so ago.

                    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                    kluursK 1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Mik

                      If it were genocide it would have been over a year or so ago.

                      kluursK Online
                      kluursK Online
                      kluurs
                      wrote last edited by
                      #1374

                      @Mik said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                      If it were genocide it would have been over a year or so ago.

                      It all depends on whether one uses a personal definition or the one that the UN, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, Holocaust Museum, The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR - U.S.), The International Court of Justice (ICJ), B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, Jewish Voice for Peace - to name a few entities who have defined Israel's activities as a genocide.

                      Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar of the Palestine situation, notes that 47% of Jews in Israel supported genocide in Gaza - i.e. asking if everyone in a city should be killed, answered "yes". Asked if there are "any innocents in Gaza?", 70% of Jewish Israelis answered "no". He also notes that's why the IDF "targets" toddlers. A member of the Jewish opposition stated that IDF soldiers kill children as a "hobby".

                      But one can argue that an alternative definition as employed by many mainstream Jewish organizations in the US don't accept that Israel is committing genocide. It's a bit like the word "myth" - one can say that Christianity is based on myth - meaning a narrative which need not be based on fact, but some would argue that "myth" is a falsehood. One's definition leads to different answers.

                      Genocide - using the above definition, has been pervasive throughout history. The US is based on genocide of many native peoples. The early Zionists knew that genocide would be necessary and discussed it openly - though avoiding the term. Ugly business. Good luck to all involved.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote last edited by
                        #1375

                        Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.

                        You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.

                        Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.

                        This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.

                        If you don't take it, it can only good happen.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • kluursK Online
                          kluursK Online
                          kluurs
                          wrote last edited by
                          #1376

                          Kind of like "antisemitism" - which may be an even more disenchanting rabbit hole to dive down.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • kluursK Online
                            kluursK Online
                            kluurs
                            wrote last edited by
                            #1377

                            Imagine if Germany had won WWII and as part of an agreement with Mexico - California, Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Arizona were returned to Mexico. Individuals living in those states would be confined to a narrow area along the coast of California - would Americans accept that that the native Indians had lived here for 14000 years and were rightfully occupying their land? Yeah, I'm sure. Not to say that Genocide isn't the answer- but it was always going to be an ugly business - and Israel's founders as well as many throughout the world knew it would be a problem.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote last edited by jon-nyc
                              #1378

                              As Yuval Noah Harari has said it’s not a border dispute, there’s enough land for both peoples. It’s a conflict of narratives and as such is intractable.

                              While two states is the only eventual solution (since neither people are going anywhere) it seems like we’ve never been further from that in my lifetime.

                              If you don't take it, it can only good happen.

                              kluursK 1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                As Yuval Noah Harari has said it’s not a border dispute, there’s enough land for both peoples. It’s a conflict of narratives and as such is intractable.

                                While two states is the only eventual solution (since neither people are going anywhere) it seems like we’ve never been further from that in my lifetime.

                                kluursK Online
                                kluursK Online
                                kluurs
                                wrote last edited by kluurs
                                #1379

                                @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                As Yuval Noah Harari has said it’s not a border dispute, there’s enough land for both peoples. It’s a conflict of narratives and as such is intractable.

                                While two states is the only eventual solution (since neither people are going anywhere) it seems like we’ve never been further from that in my lifetime.

                                Not entirely true. Look at the West Bank - settlers continue to steal secure additional land for no compensation. Listen to the Israeli officials and view the patches on Israeli soldiers showing a "greater Israel" comprising territory of several nations.

                                Israel has a blank check of armament and support from the most powerful nation in the world.

                                Truth be told, Israel will get whatever it wants - BUT, there will be a cost even if Israel manages to influence/edit/quash/purchase social and mainstream media.

                                Like many on the right, I preferred the days of watching a world based on the principles of Andy Griffith and Mayberry - and maybe we'll get there - just no time soon. It's just hard to drink the Kool-Aid of good guys vs. bad guys in a more interconnected world.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #1380

                                  I didn’t make myself understood. I guess I mean it doesn’t have to be a conflict over resources, though it is. But that’s more narrative driven. Both think god gave them the land.

                                  If you don't take it, it can only good happen.

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