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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • K Online
    K Online
    kluurs
    wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 18:59 last edited by
    #2598

    image.png

    1 Reply Last reply
    👍
    • J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 19:12 last edited by
      #2599

      Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      H 1 Reply Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:43
      • B Offline
        B Offline
        bachophile
        wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 19:33 last edited by
        #2600

        Yea but I bet they don’t tell MBS why is he wearing a bathrobe and not a suit.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • R Offline
          R Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 19:35 last edited by Renauda 3 Jan 2025, 19:36
          #2601

          @bachophile

          😆

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • H Offline
            H Offline
            Horace
            wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:23 last edited by
            #2602

            SecState's take:

            Link to video

            Education is extremely important.

            8 1 Reply Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:34
            • L LuFins Dad
              1 Mar 2025, 17:44

              So we have two ideological driven narratives.

              1. Trump is right, Trump is always right. Ergo, Vance is right by default. So by definition. Zelenskyy must be a total dickhead and an idiot. He’s not ready for the big time and needs to leave the world stage. Maybe we should invade Ukraine.

              2. Trump is wrong. He is by his very nature wrong and must be evil. Therefore Vance is evil by default. And Zelenskyy must be a brave hero that has done everything correct in the defense of his country and Trump went beyond just embarrassing us, but is a danger to this country and we must rise up and overthrow him to save Democracy!

              And there seems to be very little in between. As I’ve said many times in the past, I love it when everyone gets what they want, which seems to be what happened yesterday.

              But, just maybe, yesterday was something in between? Maybe, just maybe, Trump and JD were being a little bit of dicks, while still being correct in some ways? And maybe, just maybe, Zelenskyy came in with a chip on his shoulder, and was feeling bullied, and responded in kind? Maybe, just maybe no one was blameless yesterday and everyone overreacted? It couldn’t possibly be that, could it?

              8 Offline
              8 Offline
              89th
              wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:32 last edited by
              #2603

              @LuFins-Dad said in The Ukraine war thread:

              So we have two ideological driven narratives.

              1. Trump is right, Trump is always right. Ergo, Vance is right by default. So by definition. Zelenskyy must be a total dickhead and an idiot. He’s not ready for the big time and needs to leave the world stage. Maybe we should invade Ukraine.

              2. Trump is wrong. He is by his very nature wrong and must be evil. Therefore Vance is evil by default. And Zelenskyy must be a brave hero that has done everything correct in the defense of his country and Trump went beyond just embarrassing us, but is a danger to this country and we must rise up and overthrow him to save Democracy!

              And there seems to be very little in between. As I’ve said many times in the past, I love it when everyone gets what they want, which seems to be what happened yesterday.

              But, just maybe, yesterday was something in between? Maybe, just maybe, Trump and JD were being a little bit of dicks, while still being correct in some ways? And maybe, just maybe, Zelenskyy came in with a chip on his shoulder, and was feeling bullied, and responded in kind? Maybe, just maybe no one was blameless yesterday and everyone overreacted? It couldn’t possibly be that, could it?

              I think that’s a pretty fair take.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • H Horace
                1 Mar 2025, 20:23

                SecState's take:

                Link to video

                8 Offline
                8 Offline
                89th
                wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:34 last edited by
                #2604

                @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                SecState's take:

                Link to video

                Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                H L 2 Replies Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:54
                👍
                • X Offline
                  X Offline
                  xenon
                  wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:40 last edited by
                  #2605

                  There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                  Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                  8 H 2 Replies Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:49
                  • X Offline
                    X Offline
                    xenon
                    wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:42 last edited by
                    #2606

                    I’m also still waiting for that Obamacare replacement that’s two weeks away…

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 21:24
                    • J jon-nyc
                      1 Mar 2025, 19:12

                      Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

                      H Offline
                      H Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:43 last edited by
                      #2607

                      @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                      Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

                      Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      R 1 Reply Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:50
                      • X xenon
                        1 Mar 2025, 20:40

                        There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                        Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                        8 Offline
                        8 Offline
                        89th
                        wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:49 last edited by
                        #2608

                        @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                        Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                        I’m curious too. Unfortunately we’ve seen this a thousand times. If it fails, it’s someone else’s fault. Before Trump if any US president ever gave Putin a deal (land etc) after he invaded and caused 1.5 million deaths, it would’ve been conservative top shelf blasphemy.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • H Horace
                          1 Mar 2025, 20:43

                          @jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:

                          Magats don’t like him anymore either. Like Zelensky, he started the war.

                          Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:50 last edited by Renauda 3 Jan 2025, 20:51
                          #2609

                          @Horace

                          Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

                          Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

                          Elbows up!

                          H 1 Reply Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:52
                          • X xenon
                            1 Mar 2025, 20:40

                            There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                            Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                            H Offline
                            H Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:51 last edited by
                            #2610

                            @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                            There is some Deus Ex Machina that everyone expects from Trump - I actually really want to see this through now. What is the special deal that Trump can do to make Putin change his nature and start playing by the rules.

                            People are hoping, but "expecting" is probably a strong word.

                            Playing this forward. Let’s say we get a deal and Putin now goes into Baltics or Poland. Is it the same stance again? Let him take some land and then go make a deal?

                            Who knows? There's no pat playbook, as much as everybody would like to hand-wave from their armchair the existence of such a playbook that we're so obviously violating. Maybe we can argue about this specific situation rather than worrying about the precedent, while for some reason not worrying about the precedent of letting Russia slowly consume Ukraine.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • R Renauda
                              1 Mar 2025, 20:50

                              @Horace

                              Because one guy Tucker Calrson talked to once, said that, while being intentionally provocative.

                              Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

                              H Offline
                              H Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:52 last edited by
                              #2611

                              @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                              @Horace

                              Okay, so I forgot earlier….your one fault is sometimes relying on and defending that yellow journalist and Walter Winchell wannabe, “ FuCa” for your information. You really ought to be more circumspect with regard to that muckraking wag. Now buck up or you’ll lose your respectable Libertarian status

                              I am sure you will be consistently uneasy with any respect you may have for me, as I continue to post my opinions. But I doubt you'll find any blanket endorsements from me of anybody, including Carlson.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:53 last edited by Renauda 3 Jan 2025, 20:55
                                #2612

                                I do hope so. I continue to have faith in you.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • 8 89th
                                  1 Mar 2025, 20:34

                                  @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                  SecState's take:

                                  Link to video

                                  Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                                  H Offline
                                  H Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:54 last edited by
                                  #2613

                                  @89th said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                  @Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                  SecState's take:

                                  Link to video

                                  Interesting interview. The lady is asking what everyone is thinking, including Zelenskyy. “Marco Rubio, even you’ve said Putin is a butcher and absolutely can’t be trusted in negotiations” and his response keeps coming back to “yeah but Trump is a deal maker”, what does that meeaannnnnn?? That’s the whole point.

                                  So you don't grant the point - at all - that Trump doesn't necessarily want to go full-bore on the anti-Russia rhetoric, while his goal is to facilitate negotiations between them and Ukraine? There's no practical point there? Biden was free to say whatever because he never talked to Russia, and never intended to.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  8 1 Reply Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 21:01
                                  • X Offline
                                    X Offline
                                    xenon
                                    wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:54 last edited by
                                    #2614

                                    I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                                    I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                                    I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                                    H 8 2 Replies Last reply 1 Mar 2025, 20:57
                                    • X xenon
                                      1 Mar 2025, 20:54

                                      I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                                      I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                                      I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                                      H Offline
                                      H Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:57 last edited by
                                      #2615

                                      @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                      I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                                      I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                                      I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                                      The Ukraine situation was doing a swell job of defeating the west, revealing its self-righteous rhetoric to be powerless and empty, well before Trump came back into power.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • X Offline
                                        X Offline
                                        xenon
                                        wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 20:59 last edited by
                                        #2616

                                        Sure - but I don’t think the delicate genius was going to do anything about it. I guess with that nihilistic attitude, yesterday didn’t really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • X xenon
                                          1 Mar 2025, 20:54

                                          I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                                          I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                                          I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                                          8 Offline
                                          8 Offline
                                          89th
                                          wrote on 1 Mar 2025, 21:00 last edited by
                                          #2617

                                          @xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          I get it. I guess my stance on this stems from my opinion on Trump. A lot of his criticisms and sales pitch for what’s wrong is fine.

                                          I think he’s an empty suit beyond that. I haven’t seen any substantive policy or operational thought come from him in the last 10 years. I guess I’m skeptical that he has any competence for governance.

                                          I think the guy is witty, funny, loves his country and can read people really well…. That doesn’t mean he knows anything about governance.

                                          That’s the thing. Even when the lady was discussing taking guns away from people with mental breakdowns, he kept asking “so is that how it works now?” He doesn’t have a clue BUT in his defense sometimes you can lead by knowing the macro picture without the details. That being said, if you asked Trump when did Ukraine become a country? He’d probably be like “not sure, the late 80s?”

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