Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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Alternative: Ukraine stands long enough to outlive Putin. Putin's expansionist dream pinned down by Ukrainian resistance. Rest of world essentially safe from Putin's ambition.
Ukraine does not need to "win." It just need to pin Putin's Russia down in one place for as long as Putin rules Russia. Figure out the rest when Russia gets a new leader.
Good enough?
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Alternative: Ukraine stands long enough to outlive Putin. Putin's expansionist dream pinned down by Ukrainian resistance. Rest of world essentially safe from Putin's ambition.
Ukraine does not need to "win." It just need to pin Putin's Russia down in one place for as long as Putin rules Russia. Figure out the rest when Russia gets a new leader.
Good enough?
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Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.
They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.
The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.
If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.
They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.
The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.
If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?
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According to your graph the US has provided 75.1 billion EUR in aid. 1 EUR = 1.05 USD
Trump claims 350 billion USD has been provided and his proposal that demands an indemnity (actually, reparations) in natural resource concessions of 500 billion USD.
From what tree did Trump pull his numbers?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?
WTF is wrong with the guy?
Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?
He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.
Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.
Actually, Zelenskyy is polling at 50%, and the numbers are increasing since Trump started attacking him.
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Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.
They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.
The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.
If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.
They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.
The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.
If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?
Why are we pushing NATO and Europe to increase spending to 5% while we are at 3.6%? And Hegseth just announced that they are going to cut departments by 8% each and every year… Now, it’s possible that they want to reinvest those savings in other military assets. Maybe our own Iron Dome, but that’s something to watch.
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The only impediment to Ukraine’s agreement to the US proposal for a mineral concession is that the current draft does not explicitly contain US security guarantees for Ukraine. It is up to Trump make that one concession to Ukraine in order to make it a done deal.
Other than Putin probably finding it objectionable, why the reluctance?
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Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?
If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?
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Ukraine surrenders or the US pulls out of Europe. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47574
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@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?
If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?
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Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
I don’t mind pushing Europe to spend 5%. I’m not fond of us only being at 3.6 and looking to drop 8% per year.
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I understand saying that is going to set some people off because they take an absolutist view about American relations with Ukraine that suggests no matter what Zelensky does, he is entitled to billions upon billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded weapons and aid.
No way. Surely nobody is that silly and immature.
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@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I see and hear that Rubio has no response for why Trump posits that Zelensky is a "dictator without election."
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There is nothing wrong with the United States trying to get something in return for all it has spent, and despite some ignorant claims to the contrary, Lend-Lease in World War II was not free.
That’s true and the UK only finished paying its Lend-Lease debt back a few years ago.
Interestingly, the USSR never remitted so much as a penny for any of its Lend Lease assistance after WWII. The total technical and material aid Stalin received from the USA from 1941 through 1945 totalled about 11 billion USD. That would be over 1 trillion USD in today’s dollars. (McMeekin: Stalin’s War, 2021. pp. 658 - 659)
