Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.
They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.
The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.
If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.
They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.
The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.
If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?
Why are we pushing NATO and Europe to increase spending to 5% while we are at 3.6%? And Hegseth just announced that they are going to cut departments by 8% each and every year… Now, it’s possible that they want to reinvest those savings in other military assets. Maybe our own Iron Dome, but that’s something to watch.
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The only impediment to Ukraine’s agreement to the US proposal for a mineral concession is that the current draft does not explicitly contain US security guarantees for Ukraine. It is up to Trump make that one concession to Ukraine in order to make it a done deal.
Other than Putin probably finding it objectionable, why the reluctance?
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Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?
If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?
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Ukraine surrenders or the US pulls out of Europe. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47574
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@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?
If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?
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Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.
Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.
I don’t mind pushing Europe to spend 5%. I’m not fond of us only being at 3.6 and looking to drop 8% per year.
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I understand saying that is going to set some people off because they take an absolutist view about American relations with Ukraine that suggests no matter what Zelensky does, he is entitled to billions upon billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded weapons and aid.
No way. Surely nobody is that silly and immature.
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@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
I see and hear that Rubio has no response for why Trump posits that Zelensky is a "dictator without election."
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There is nothing wrong with the United States trying to get something in return for all it has spent, and despite some ignorant claims to the contrary, Lend-Lease in World War II was not free.
That’s true and the UK only finished paying its Lend-Lease debt back a few years ago.
Interestingly, the USSR never remitted so much as a penny for any of its Lend Lease assistance after WWII. The total technical and material aid Stalin received from the USA from 1941 through 1945 totalled about 11 billion USD. That would be over 1 trillion USD in today’s dollars. (McMeekin: Stalin’s War, 2021. pp. 658 - 659)
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Well, that went over your head ...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Sec. Rubio said "One of the points that the President made is that Ukraine is on another continent and it doesn't directly impact the daily lives of the people of the US."
What the................?
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It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where. That is a concession we should all care about, not that it's obvious that we all do, as we deploy our armchair principles.
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It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where. That is a concession we should all care about, not that it's obvious that we all do, as we deploy our armchair principles.
It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where.
No, that would be an outcome. A concession by Russia at this point would be that Kremlin stops attacking what remains of Ukraine and accepts that it is a fully sovereign and independent country that will freely decide its own future path. Putin’s NATO threat justification is a figment of his own twisted perception of reality.
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It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where.
No, that would be an outcome. A concession by Russia at this point would be that Kremlin stops attacking what remains of Ukraine and accepts that it is a fully sovereign and independent country that will freely decide its own future path. Putin’s NATO threat justification is a figment of his own twisted perception of reality.
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@Renauda I had been assuming that a peace deal in the immediate future would include sovereignty for Ukraine.
Assume nothing of the sort from Putin. He is incapable of negotiating anything in good faith. Putin’s objective, at the very least, is to have what will be left of Ukraine as a wholly subservient vassal state along the lines of Belarus.
The Ukrainian nation will not accept that outcome.
