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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

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  • RenaudaR Offline
    RenaudaR Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on last edited by Renauda
    #57

    The only impediment to Ukraine’s agreement to the US proposal for a mineral concession is that the current draft does not explicitly contain US security guarantees for Ukraine. It is up to Trump make that one concession to Ukraine in order to make it a done deal.

    Other than Putin probably finding it objectionable, why the reluctance?

    Elbows up!

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #58

      Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

      Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

      They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      X LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #59

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Jolly

          Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

          Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

          They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

          X Offline
          X Offline
          xenon
          wrote on last edited by
          #60

          @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

          Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

          Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

          They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

          Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?

          If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?

          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
          • kluursK Offline
            kluursK Offline
            kluurs
            wrote on last edited by
            #61

            Ukraine surrenders or the US pulls out of Europe. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47574

            1 Reply Last reply
            • X xenon

              @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

              Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

              They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

              Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?

              If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?

              JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #62

              @xenon said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?

              Who do you think? 🤔

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Jolly

                Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                LuFins DadL Offline
                LuFins DadL Offline
                LuFins Dad
                wrote on last edited by
                #63

                @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                I don’t mind pushing Europe to spend 5%. I’m not fond of us only being at 3.6 and looking to drop 8% per year.

                The Brad

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by Jolly
                  #64

                  https://redstate.com/bonchie/2025/02/21/watch-marco-rubio-reveals-why-the-trump-administration-is-so-ticked-at-zelensky-n2185837

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #65

                    I understand saying that is going to set some people off because they take an absolutist view about American relations with Ukraine that suggests no matter what Zelensky does, he is entitled to billions upon billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded weapons and aid.

                    No way. Surely nobody is that silly and immature.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      https://redstate.com/bonchie/2025/02/21/watch-marco-rubio-reveals-why-the-trump-administration-is-so-ticked-at-zelensky-n2185837

                      AxtremusA Offline
                      AxtremusA Offline
                      Axtremus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #66

                      @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      https://redstate.com/bonchie/2025/02/21/watch-marco-rubio-reveals-why-the-trump-administration-is-so-ticked-at-zelensky-n2185837

                      I see and hear that Rubio has no response for why Trump posits that Zelensky is a "dictator without election."

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #67

                        There is nothing wrong with the United States trying to get something in return for all it has spent, and despite some ignorant claims to the contrary, Lend-Lease in World War II was not free.

                        That’s true and the UK only finished paying its Lend-Lease debt back a few years ago.

                        Interestingly, the USSR never remitted so much as a penny for any of its Lend Lease assistance after WWII. The total technical and material aid Stalin received from the USA from 1941 through 1945 totalled about 11 billion USD. That would be over 1 trillion USD in today’s dollars. (McMeekin: Stalin’s War, 2021. pp. 658 - 659)

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #68

                          Well, that went over your head ...

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                          • taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by taiwan_girl
                            #69

                            Sec. Rubio said "One of the points that the President made is that Ukraine is on another continent and it doesn't directly impact the daily lives of the people of the US."

                            What the................?

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • JollyJ Jolly

                              Well, that went over your head ...

                              RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #70

                              @Jolly

                              Well, that went over your head ...

                              What are you talking about, Beauregard? Believe me, there is nothing you have ever posted on this subject that has gone over my head.

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                #71

                                Wow.

                                Only non-witches get due process.

                                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • HoraceH Offline
                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #72

                                  It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where. That is a concession we should all care about, not that it's obvious that we all do, as we deploy our armchair principles.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Horace

                                    It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where. That is a concession we should all care about, not that it's obvious that we all do, as we deploy our armchair principles.

                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                    #73

                                    @Horace

                                    It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where.

                                    No, that would be an outcome. A concession by Russia at this point would be that Kremlin stops attacking what remains of Ukraine and accepts that it is a fully sovereign and independent country that will freely decide its own future path. Putin’s NATO threat justification is a figment of his own twisted perception of reality.

                                    Elbows up!

                                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • RenaudaR Renauda

                                      @Horace

                                      It would be a concession to stop prosecuting a war they are destined to win, absent an escalation between nuclear powers that ends who knows where.

                                      No, that would be an outcome. A concession by Russia at this point would be that Kremlin stops attacking what remains of Ukraine and accepts that it is a fully sovereign and independent country that will freely decide its own future path. Putin’s NATO threat justification is a figment of his own twisted perception of reality.

                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #74

                                      @Renauda I had been assuming that a peace deal in the immediate future would include sovereignty for Ukraine.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • HoraceH Horace

                                        @Renauda I had been assuming that a peace deal in the immediate future would include sovereignty for Ukraine.

                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                        #75

                                        @Horace

                                        Assume nothing of the sort from Putin. He is incapable of negotiating anything in good faith. Putin’s objective, at the very least, is to have what will be left of Ukraine as a wholly subservient vassal state along the lines of Belarus.

                                        The Ukrainian nation will not accept that outcome.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • LuFins DadL Offline
                                          LuFins DadL Offline
                                          LuFins Dad
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #76

                                          The Brad

                                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
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