Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
242 Posts 14 Posters 2.3k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #46

    I came across this exchange between Niall Ferguson and JD Vance. Looks familiar.

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on last edited by Renauda
      #47

      @Horace

      So would it still be “‘moralistic garbage” and “the rhetorical currency of globalists” if Ukraine assigns its natural resources’ receivables over to the US as per Trump’s proposed contract?

      Would the USA suddenly then acquire vital strategic interests in guaranteeing Ukrainian sovereignty and security?

      Sorry, but Baby Face Vance’s spin is pretty thin gruel.

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • AxtremusA Away
        AxtremusA Away
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by
        #48

        Alternative: Ukraine stands long enough to outlive Putin. Putin's expansionist dream pinned down by Ukrainian resistance. Rest of world essentially safe from Putin's ambition.

        Ukraine does not need to "win." It just need to pin Putin's Russia down in one place for as long as Putin rules Russia. Figure out the rest when Russia gets a new leader.

        Good enough?

        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
        • AxtremusA Axtremus

          Alternative: Ukraine stands long enough to outlive Putin. Putin's expansionist dream pinned down by Ukrainian resistance. Rest of world essentially safe from Putin's ambition.

          Ukraine does not need to "win." It just need to pin Putin's Russia down in one place for as long as Putin rules Russia. Figure out the rest when Russia gets a new leader.

          Good enough?

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #49

          @Axtremus That's a plan, to be weighed against other plans. At least it's a plan.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by Jolly
            #50

            Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.

            They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.

            The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.

            If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            RenaudaR LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
            • Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote on last edited by
              #51

              image.png

              I was only joking

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Jolly

                Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.

                They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.

                The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.

                If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?

                RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                #52

                @Jolly

                If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?

                You tell us. You can start with either Yalta or the Truman Doctrine and proceed from there. Your choice.

                We’re listening.

                Elbows up!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #53

                  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Jolly

                    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #54

                    @Jolly

                    According to your graph the US has provided 75.1 billion EUR in aid. 1 EUR = 1.05 USD

                    Trump claims 350 billion USD has been provided and his proposal that demands an indemnity (actually, reparations) in natural resource concessions of 500 billion USD.

                    From what tree did Trump pull his numbers?

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?

                      WTF is wrong with the guy?

                      Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?

                      He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.

                      Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.

                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins Dad
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #55

                      @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      And as for criticising Zelensky for not holding elections. Presumably, Trump is looking to overlook the savagery and barbarity with which his friend Putin assures his own election victories?

                      WTF is wrong with the guy?

                      Or am I completely wrong about this? Maybe it's time for that great American conservative Tucker Carlson to go on another fact finding mission and marvel at the price of Russian eggs?

                      He's decided to end this war. Zelensky is currently polling below 10% He using that as a hammer to make Ukraine sign off on a peace proposal.

                      Is that right? Maybe not. Is it effective in ending this war? Perhaps.

                      Actually, Zelenskyy is polling at 50%, and the numbers are increasing since Trump started attacking him.

                      The Brad

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Jolly

                        Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.

                        They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.

                        The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.

                        If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?

                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins Dad
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #56

                        @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                        Something to consider, next time some of y'all get the vapors over tariffs, especially tariffs which protect strategic industries... Ukraine should be primarily a European problem, but the Europeans have chosen butter over guns for so long, they have no significant stocks of weapons to send the Ukranians.

                        They don't even have enough weapons to defend themselves.

                        The Brits couldn't put 50 MBTs in the field if you held a gun to their heads. France gutted their military and is just now crawling back to first world status. The Germans are also behind in equipment and their army is small and undertrained.

                        If the Europeans don't take Putin seriously, why are we the cop on the street?

                        Why are we pushing NATO and Europe to increase spending to 5% while we are at 3.6%? And Hegseth just announced that they are going to cut departments by 8% each and every year… Now, it’s possible that they want to reinvest those savings in other military assets. Maybe our own Iron Dome, but that’s something to watch.

                        The Brad

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • RenaudaR Offline
                          RenaudaR Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                          #57

                          The only impediment to Ukraine’s agreement to the US proposal for a mineral concession is that the current draft does not explicitly contain US security guarantees for Ukraine. It is up to Trump make that one concession to Ukraine in order to make it a done deal.

                          Other than Putin probably finding it objectionable, why the reluctance?

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #58

                            Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                            Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                            They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            X LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #59

                              You were warned.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Jolly

                                Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                                Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                                They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                                X Offline
                                X Offline
                                xenon
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #60

                                @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                                Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                                Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                                They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                                Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?

                                If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?

                                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                • kluursK Offline
                                  kluursK Offline
                                  kluurs
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #61

                                  Ukraine surrenders or the US pulls out of Europe. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47574

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • X xenon

                                    @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                                    Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                                    Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                                    They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                                    Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?

                                    If it’s mostly the Russians, doesn’t depleting their military lower the spend you need in the long run?

                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #62

                                    @xenon said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                                    Who do the Europeans need to defend themselves from?

                                    Who do you think? 🤔

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Jolly

                                      Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                                      Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                                      They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins Dad
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #63

                                      @Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                                      Why are we pushing Europe to 5%? Because 5% will probably supply enough combat power that they can defend themselves.

                                      Follow the current German/French consortium on a new MBT? They've just about got it finalized and Rheinmetal has chucked a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

                                      They can't help themselves and I think Americans are getting tired of carrying their load.

                                      I don’t mind pushing Europe to spend 5%. I’m not fond of us only being at 3.6 and looking to drop 8% per year.

                                      The Brad

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by Jolly
                                        #64

                                        https://redstate.com/bonchie/2025/02/21/watch-marco-rubio-reveals-why-the-trump-administration-is-so-ticked-at-zelensky-n2185837

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #65

                                          I understand saying that is going to set some people off because they take an absolutist view about American relations with Ukraine that suggests no matter what Zelensky does, he is entitled to billions upon billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded weapons and aid.

                                          No way. Surely nobody is that silly and immature.

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups