Dear Self,...
-
All good but for the "follow your passion in your career" advice. That's rarely practical, but the people for whom it works out consider it their duty to try to convince everybody that that's the best way to live. I don't suspect any of the "musicians" in that video would have been well-served to try to make a living at it.
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
All good but for the "follow your passion in your career" advice. That's rarely practical, but the people for whom it works out consider it their duty to try to convince everybody that that's the best way to live. I don't suspect any of the "musicians" in that video would have been well-served to try to make a living at it.
Good point. I really wanted to "make movies" when I was in high school, but I learned relatively soon after that it's more realistic to get a decent paying job that I don't mind (and coworker who I enjoy, which is important IMO) so that it enables my passions, whether that is photography, travel, movies, golf, etc.
-
The comments are pretty interesting, too.
Link to video@Jolly said in Dear Self,...:
The comments are pretty interesting, too.
Agreed.
Such as this one: "It’s not a mistake to retire, it’s a mistake to stop living just bc you’re not working"
I think it depends on your personality. I've mentioned before how I told my wife I want to retire as early as possible, who knows when but my goal right now is 57, maybe earlier. She said "won't you get bored?" and I would never. I have so many books I want to read, movies, shows, golf, travel, swimming... heck I'd be happy getting a massage and then watching sports at the local pub. I would NEVER get bored if I was able to stop working. I'd volunteer for little leagues and umpire. Who cares! So much to do, so little time.
-
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
All good but for the "follow your passion in your career" advice. That's rarely practical, but the people for whom it works out consider it their duty to try to convince everybody that that's the best way to live. I don't suspect any of the "musicians" in that video would have been well-served to try to make a living at it.
It depends on how rigidly it's defined. There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
Also, as somebody else once said (I might be paraphrasing), music is a wonderful pastime but a terrible career, at least for most people.
I was only joking
-
I wanted a job I was passionate about until i started looking for jobs. I quickly found out that fun jobs were hard to come by but shit jobs were relatively plentiful. Luckily after futilely pursuing journalism, I ended up programming which provided me the autonomy and creativity I sought. It was like being paid to work puzzles, plus my positions always had a lot of user contact.
-
I wanted a job I was passionate about until i started looking for jobs. I quickly found out that fun jobs were hard to come by but shit jobs were relatively plentiful. Luckily after futilely pursuing journalism, I ended up programming which provided me the autonomy and creativity I sought. It was like being paid to work puzzles, plus my positions always had a lot of user contact.
@Mik said in Dear Self,...:
I wanted a job I was passionate about until i started looking for jobs. I quickly found out that fun jobs were hard to come by but shit jobs were relatively plentiful. Luckily after futilely pursuing journalism, I ended up programming which provided me the autonomy and creativity I sought. It was like being paid to work puzzles, plus my positions always had a lot of user contact.
They call it 'work' for a reason. If it was any different, they'd call it 'fun' and charge admission.
-
I taught myself simple computer programming as a kid, and always wanted to do it professionally. Then I got sick of it professionally and was lucky to be able to move into more math and algorithm work, with almost no expectation that I do grunt work programming. That had everything to do with luck, since I only fell over backwards into bio-tech as a fledgling programmer, and bio-tech happens to have those other avenues available. I despise the process of "mastering" ever-changing programming technologies.
Education is extremely important.
-
I taught myself simple computer programming as a kid, and always wanted to do it professionally. Then I got sick of it professionally and was lucky to be able to move into more math and algorithm work, with almost no expectation that I do grunt work programming. That had everything to do with luck, since I only fell over backwards into bio-tech as a fledgling programmer, and bio-tech happens to have those other avenues available. I despise the process of "mastering" ever-changing programming technologies.
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
I taught myself simple computer programming as a kid, and always wanted to do it professionally. Then I got sick of it professionally and was lucky to be able to move into more math and algorithm work, with almost no expectation that I do grunt work programming. That had everything to do with luck, since I only fell over backwards into bio-tech as a fledgling programmer, and bio-tech happens to have those other avenues available. I despise the process of "mastering" ever-changing programming technologies.
It's funny, when I graduated I really wanted to be a programmer. I went to a couple of interviews, and in both cases passed the aptitude test - I must have shown something as they selected about 5 people out of 100 both times. Then, in both cases I failed to get offered a job, presumably due to my admittedly completely woeful social skills at that time.
So ever since then I've had to live with the stigma of not having good enough social skills to be a computer programmer. And now I'm a manager
-
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
I taught myself simple computer programming as a kid, and always wanted to do it professionally. Then I got sick of it professionally and was lucky to be able to move into more math and algorithm work, with almost no expectation that I do grunt work programming. That had everything to do with luck, since I only fell over backwards into bio-tech as a fledgling programmer, and bio-tech happens to have those other avenues available. I despise the process of "mastering" ever-changing programming technologies.
It's funny, when I graduated I really wanted to be a programmer. I went to a couple of interviews, and in both cases passed the aptitude test - I must have shown something as they selected about 5 people out of 100 both times. Then, in both cases I failed to get offered a job, presumably due to my admittedly completely woeful social skills at that time.
So ever since then I've had to live with the stigma of not having good enough social skills to be a computer programmer. And now I'm a manager
@Doctor-Phibes That is funny.
-
@Doctor-Phibes That is funny.
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes That is funny.
And common. So many times I've seen the best technical resources made into managers, which is usually the last thing they want.
-
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes That is funny.
And common. So many times I've seen the best technical resources made into managers, which is usually the last thing they want.
@Mik said in Dear Self,...:
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes That is funny.
And common. So many times I've seen the best technical resources made into managers, which is usually the last thing they want.
To be fair, my social skills have improved a lot in the last 40 years.
And anybody who says otherwise can go fuck themselves!
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
Also, as somebody else once said (I might be paraphrasing), music is a wonderful pastime but a terrible career, at least for most people.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion. Not doing something you hate isn't the same thing as following your passion, but is of course better than doing something you hate.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion. Not doing something you hate isn't the same thing as following your passion, but is of course better than doing something you hate.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion.
Says the guy who's never really pursued his professionally? Following your passion isn't the same thing as doing the exact thing that you think your passion is at this very moment. Where you end up is almost always going to be wildly different. That's not a failure of the process and it's still good advice.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion.
Says the guy who's never really pursued his professionally? Following your passion isn't the same thing as doing the exact thing that you think your passion is at this very moment. Where you end up is almost always going to be wildly different. That's not a failure of the process and it's still good advice.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion.
Says the guy who's never really pursued his professionally?
OK, let's make it personal
I was never good enough to make it a career. I've played with people who were and who did, and I've seen enough to know it's a very double-edged sword, with ruined marriages and in one case ending up being a hotel porter and playing in pubs at night, which isn't what I would want. I know other people who have ended up with a decent life doing session work and playing cruise ships, but I don't think that's the dream.
Anyway, my passion is safety engineering.
I was only joking
-
-
Passions can be developed. In fact, becoming really, really good at some specific thing can be an abstract passion in itself. That's where a lot of conscientious, hard-working people end up, and I don't think they're missing out just because they're not doing as an adult, what they dreamt of as a child.
-
Passions can be developed. In fact, becoming really, really good at some specific thing can be an abstract passion in itself. That's where a lot of conscientious, hard-working people end up, and I don't think they're missing out just because they're not doing as an adult, what they dreamt of as a child.
@Horace said in Dear Self,...:
Passions can be developed. In fact, becoming really, really good at some specific thing can be an abstract passion in itself. That's where a lot of conscientious, hard-working people end up, and I don't think they're missing out just because they're not doing as an adult, what they dreamt of as a child.
It's also a balancing act. At the risk of sounding like somebody who wears amusing Christmas sweaters year-round, having a happy family life is way more important to me than following a career dream, and my job means I get to own my own house and what-not. So maybe the happy family life is my passion. Well, that and my collection of amusing Christmas sweaters.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion.
Says the guy who's never really pursued his professionally?
OK, let's make it personal
I was never good enough to make it a career. I've played with people who were and who did, and I've seen enough to know it's a very double-edged sword, with ruined marriages and in one case ending up being a hotel porter and playing in pubs at night, which isn't what I would want. I know other people who have ended up with a decent life doing session work and playing cruise ships, but I don't think that's the dream.
Anyway, my passion is safety engineering.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion.
Says the guy who's never really pursued his professionally?
OK, let's make it personal
I was never good enough to make it a career.
Make what a career? Playing gigs? That's like one job. That's not "music." If "music" is a legitimate passion as you claim it is, then sound design, production, audio engineering, teaching and dozens of other jobs are also on the table. Unless the passion we're talking about truly is just playing gigs.
In which case, of the people you know who did play gigs for a living, how long did that last? You mentioned ruined marriages and being a hotel porter. Shit, Johnny Cash was playing dumpy cocktail lounges and living in obscurity when Rick Rubin picked him back up. Playing gigs on a national or international scale is not a career, it's a thing very few people get to do for a very short period of time.
"Pursuing a passion" with a mix of common sense and a gut feeling about whether or not you'll hate it usually leads people somewhere (1) completely outside of where they were aiming at and (2) somewhere that's interesting for them. It's not a bad strategy.
Not everyone has to do that—another good strategy is to pick something sensible to support everything else in one's life. But guaranteed your musical abilities aren't holding you back from doing everything under the sun. There's a ton of stuff in between "nothing" and "Taylor Swift."
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Dear Self,...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
There are a shitload of musician-adjacent careers that are just close enough to help musicians maintain enough give-a-shit to make the job loads better than accountancy.
That's not really following your passion, though.
"Music" isn't a passion, that's ridiculous. What do you mean by that? Playing in front of others? Teaching others how to play? Mixing stuff? Soundscapes? Theory? Music therapy? Actual passions aren't vague.
And there's a world of difference between compromising everything about yourself to be more marketable and negotiating with the world to find something you don't entirely hate doing and gives you something beyond a paycheck. No, it's not literally doing the very specific thing you had in your head that you wanted to do, but were you allowed to do that thing for a living you'd be just as happy or miserable as you are now.
What I meant was that 'maintaining enough give-a-shit' isn't really what I think of as passion. Of course music is a passion.
Says the guy who's never really pursued his professionally?
OK, let's make it personal
I was never good enough to make it a career.
Make what a career? Playing gigs? That's like one job. That's not "music." If "music" is a legitimate passion as you claim it is, then sound design, production, audio engineering, teaching and dozens of other jobs are also on the table. Unless the passion we're talking about truly is just playing gigs.
In which case, of the people you know who did play gigs for a living, how long did that last? You mentioned ruined marriages and being a hotel porter. Shit, Johnny Cash was playing dumpy cocktail lounges and living in obscurity when Rick Rubin picked him back up. Playing gigs on a national or international scale is not a career, it's a thing very few people get to do for a very short period of time.
"Pursuing a passion" with a mix of common sense and a gut feeling about whether or not you'll hate it usually leads people somewhere (1) completely outside of where they were aiming at and (2) somewhere that's interesting for them. It's not a bad strategy.
Not everyone has to do that—another good strategy is to pick something sensible to support everything else in one's life. But guaranteed your musical abilities aren't holding you back from doing everything under the sun. There's a ton of stuff in between "nothing" and "Taylor Swift."
@Aqua-Letifer said in Dear Self,...:
In which case, of the people you know who did play gigs for a living, how long did that last?
One guy I played with in a cheesy school band for a year still plays in Simply Red, but other than him (who I obviously don't know now), the happiest musicians I know are the ones who do it for fun. I do know a few people who went to music college, and their professional lives have actually been a bit disappointing. Admittedly not from following their passion, but possibly from not being willing to diversify as you suggested.
To be honest, all that other stuff like music production never really appealed. I had the option of working as a tech for the BBC, which would have kind of being a tertiary type job and could well have developed further, but all I saw was a bunch of guys spending most of the day sitting around waiting on the artistes.
Anyway, I'm really just aimlessly bullshitting. I'd never advise somebody not to follow a passion.
