Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Bolton

Bolton

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
100 Posts 12 Posters 1.8k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

    HoraceH Online
    HoraceH Online
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by Horace
    #9

    @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

    Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

    So, you found a situation where Trump can do a reasonable thing, and you can rhetorically frame it as orange man bad. Good for you. Mission accomplished.

    I am sure we can all agree that Trump doesn't like Bolton. He's made that clear. That doesn't lock Trump into giving Bolton SS details forever, at penalty of being called orange man bad by random TDS sufferers on random internet fora.

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
      #10

      Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

      Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

      You were warned.

      HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

        Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

        HoraceH Online
        HoraceH Online
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

        Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

        Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

        That's a better argument. I don't know that it's apples to apples, but yes one can imagine Bolton losing out on the asking of favors from Trump. Which is to be expected. The fact remains that these SS details are favors, not requirements. Are they norms? You can do that research if you would like.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
          #12

          Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41. Biden gave secret service protection to two of Trump’s NSA’s because of specific threats from Iran. Are there other examples? I’m sure. Most presidents would do what they needed to to protect former American officials from threats from foreign adversaries, without concern for which party they belonged to or whether or not they kissed his ring.

          You were warned.

          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41. Biden gave secret service protection to two of Trump’s NSA’s because of specific threats from Iran. Are there other examples? I’m sure. Most presidents would do what they needed to to protect former American officials from threats from foreign adversaries, without concern for which party they belonged to or whether or not they kissed his ring.

            HoraceH Online
            HoraceH Online
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

            Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41.

            That sounds really stupid and to the detriment of the USA. I don't expect Trump would do the same, and that is one reason why people voted for him.

            I am entirely unconvinced that there is a norm that Bolton should receive lifetime SS detail.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #14

              AFAIK, only Presidents, VPs and their respective spouses receive lifetime details.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • RichR Online
                RichR Online
                Rich
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                Yeah, but it seems reasonable for high ranking officials that have a legitimate specific threat against them to be able to have one.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Online
                  HoraceH Online
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  Is there an expiration date on "legitimate specific threats"? If a foreign power wanted to force America to spend a trillion dollars a year on the SS, could they put a bounty on the heads of every governmental official in the country? None of this stuff is simple. It is only rhetorically simple.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                    Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                    You were warned.

                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                      Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                      HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                      Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                      Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                      I can imagine he would magnanimously continue doing a favor for this O'Brien character, while treating the Bolton situation more coldly and analytically, but still reasonably.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                        #19

                        I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                        That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                        You were warned.

                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                          That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                          HoraceH Online
                          HoraceH Online
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #20

                          @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                          I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                          That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                          You're not saying anything different from what I said. You're just using different words. I've admitted that Trump's personal feelings about Bolton played a role.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by Renauda
                            #21

                            If the Iranians or some other Islamic fanatic proxy of Tehran do manage to whack Bolton on US soil during the course of this administration, Trump will, in part, have to own it.

                            Bolton may not be a particularly likeable person, but he is a tremendous asset as an advisor on matters of security and diplomacy with the likes of the Russians, Chinese and Iranians.

                            But if Trump feels that he can save a buck, what does it matter if something unpleasant happens to Bolton?

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • taiwan_girlT Online
                              taiwan_girlT Online
                              taiwan_girl
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                              President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                              RenaudaR HoraceH JollyJ 3 Replies Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                                Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                                HoraceH Online
                                HoraceH Online
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #23

                                @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                                Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                                Seems the Biden admin did in fact deny O'Brien an SS detail. Care to hand-wring about that? In an objective manner?

                                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/security-detail-for-ex-top-trump-official-denied-by-biden-administration/ar-BB1q6fMI

                                WASHINGTON—The Biden administration has declined for almost a year to provide security to Robert O’Brien, a former national security adviser in the Trump White House, despite behind-the-scenes pressure from lawmakers and what they describe as continuing threats against his life.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                  Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                  You were warned.

                                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                    My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                    Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                    HoraceH Online
                                    HoraceH Online
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                    My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                    Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                    Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Online
                                      HoraceH Online
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #26

                                      Some background on costs of SS protection, focusing on Bolton and O'Brien, largely apolitical: (Spoiler, it's multi millions per year per person.)

                                      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/secret-service-paid-over-12-million-for-a-years-protection-of-2-trump-advisers-from-potential-iranian-threats/

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                        President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                                        President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                        #27

                                        @taiwan_girl

                                        President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                        And for that reason, I would argue that it is his presidential prerogative to kick them out rather than his right.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                          President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                                          President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                          HoraceH Online
                                          HoraceH Online
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #28

                                          @taiwan_girl said in Bolton:

                                          President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                          I would say it makes sense to remove SS details from both Bolton and O'Brien, and O'Brien was maintained because he is a friend to Trump. I am not going to pretend to be shocked that this sort of thing happens, and I will not concede that Trump is the only politician who acts like that. If he didn't, he might be the only who doesn't.

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups