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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Bolton

Bolton

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  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #17

    Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

    Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

    You were warned.

    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

      Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

      HoraceH Online
      HoraceH Online
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #18

      @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

      Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

      Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

      I can imagine he would magnanimously continue doing a favor for this O'Brien character, while treating the Bolton situation more coldly and analytically, but still reasonably.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #19

        I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

        That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

        You were warned.

        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

          That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

          HoraceH Online
          HoraceH Online
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #20

          @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

          I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

          That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

          You're not saying anything different from what I said. You're just using different words. I've admitted that Trump's personal feelings about Bolton played a role.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • RenaudaR Offline
            RenaudaR Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on last edited by Renauda
            #21

            If the Iranians or some other Islamic fanatic proxy of Tehran do manage to whack Bolton on US soil during the course of this administration, Trump will, in part, have to own it.

            Bolton may not be a particularly likeable person, but he is a tremendous asset as an advisor on matters of security and diplomacy with the likes of the Russians, Chinese and Iranians.

            But if Trump feels that he can save a buck, what does it matter if something unpleasant happens to Bolton?

            Elbows up!

            1 Reply Last reply
            • taiwan_girlT Online
              taiwan_girlT Online
              taiwan_girl
              wrote on last edited by
              #22

              President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

              President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

              RenaudaR HoraceH JollyJ 3 Replies Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                HoraceH Online
                HoraceH Online
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #23

                @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                Seems the Biden admin did in fact deny O'Brien an SS detail. Care to hand-wring about that? In an objective manner?

                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/security-detail-for-ex-top-trump-official-denied-by-biden-administration/ar-BB1q6fMI

                WASHINGTON—The Biden administration has declined for almost a year to provide security to Robert O’Brien, a former national security adviser in the Trump White House, despite behind-the-scenes pressure from lawmakers and what they describe as continuing threats against his life.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #24

                  My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                  Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                  You were warned.

                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                    Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                    HoraceH Online
                    HoraceH Online
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #25

                    @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                    My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                    Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                    Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #26

                      Some background on costs of SS protection, focusing on Bolton and O'Brien, largely apolitical: (Spoiler, it's multi millions per year per person.)

                      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/secret-service-paid-over-12-million-for-a-years-protection-of-2-trump-advisers-from-potential-iranian-threats/

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                        President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                        President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #27

                        @taiwan_girl

                        President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                        And for that reason, I would argue that it is his presidential prerogative to kick them out rather than his right.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                          President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                          President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                          HoraceH Online
                          HoraceH Online
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #28

                          @taiwan_girl said in Bolton:

                          President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                          I would say it makes sense to remove SS details from both Bolton and O'Brien, and O'Brien was maintained because he is a friend to Trump. I am not going to pretend to be shocked that this sort of thing happens, and I will not concede that Trump is the only politician who acts like that. If he didn't, he might be the only who doesn't.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • HoraceH Horace

                            @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                            My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                            Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                            Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #29

                            @Horace said in Bolton:

                            @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                            My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                            Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                            Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                            Might be a reasonable argument had he not given protection to Bolton, who made a living on fox news calling him and Obama idiots for a decade.

                            That’s why I asked if he ever gave a reason.

                            You were warned.

                            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                            • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                              President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                              President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                              JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #30

                              @taiwan_girl said in Bolton:

                              President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                              President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                              I think Pelosi has been one of the most powerful Speakers in the last 25 years. Perhaps the most powerful.

                              You want vindictive? Look up the word in the dictionary and you'll see her picture.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                @Horace said in Bolton:

                                @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                                Might be a reasonable argument had he not given protection to Bolton, who made a living on fox news calling him and Obama idiots for a decade.

                                That’s why I asked if he ever gave a reason.

                                HoraceH Online
                                HoraceH Online
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #31

                                @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                @Horace said in Bolton:

                                @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                                Might be a reasonable argument had he not given protection to Bolton, who made a living on fox news calling him and Obama idiots for a decade.

                                That’s why I asked if he ever gave a reason.

                                I guess we'll never know, but let's give Biden (or his handlers) the benefit of the doubt that his personal feelings about a Trumpian political operative played no role.

                                You can go ahead and land there, in that comfy position, content that you'll never hear any reason. Because you won't.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                  #32

                                  Or we can assume he holds no grudge against Bolton, whom all of us have heard excoriating him and Obama on national television, but detests this guy O’Brien, whom no one here could have named yesterday.

                                  You were warned.

                                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                    Or we can assume he holds no grudge against Bolton, whom all of us have heard excoriating him and Obama on national television, but detests this guy O’Brien, whom no one here could have named yesterday.

                                    HoraceH Online
                                    HoraceH Online
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #33

                                    @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                    Or we can assume he holds no grudge against Bolton, whom all of us have heard excoriating him and Obama on national television, but detests this guy O’Brien, whom no one here could have named yesterday.

                                    Bolton was an outspoken, famous never-Trumper throughout Biden's term. An important ally against the most important enemy. You know that. But it's all about what Bolton said on Fox 15 years ago. You think I am disgusted by you because of your sig. I'm disgusted by you because you're disingenuous, every day here.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                      #34

                                      It’s true that Bolton warned against Trump, like the vast majority of Trump’s cabinet level picks. But that doesn’t change the fact that he was highly critical of Biden with respect to Afghanistan, Iran, and Israeli conduct of the current war. I mentioned the Obama administration only to point out that he’s been critical for decades, not months.

                                      You were warned.

                                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        It’s true that Bolton warned against Trump, like the vast majority of Trump’s cabinet level picks. But that doesn’t change the fact that he was highly critical of Biden with respect to Afghanistan, Iran, and Israeli conduct of the current war. I mentioned the Obama administration only to point out that he’s been critical for decades, not months.

                                        HoraceH Online
                                        HoraceH Online
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #35

                                        @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                        It’s true that Bolton warned against Trump, like the vast majority of Trump’s cabinet level picks. But that doesn’t change the fact that he was highly critical of Biden with respect to Afghanistan, Iran, and Israeli conduct of the current war. I mentioned the Obama administration only to point out that he’s been critical for decades, not months.

                                        And the fact that he's among the most credible and effective never-Trump allies the Biden admin had against enemy #1, he even wrote a book, do you suppose, jon, that that might override what Bolton said, in what I am sure were civil political disagreements, on Fox, or maybe WSJ op eds? Do you suppose that would provide reasonable motivation for Biden and his handlers to consider him an ally?

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                          #36

                                          An ally? No.

                                          We’re they appreciative of the majority of Trump’s cabinet picks who came to view him as a dangerous self-interested tool and communicated that to the world? Sure. But how many of the others got secret service protection? McMaster? Milley? I don’t think so (to be fair I didn’t check)

                                          You were warned.

                                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
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