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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Bolton

Bolton

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    Ok, where’s the cite? I can imagine it happening, but I can imagine other scenarios and you are not exactly a neutral observer.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5099407-trump-explains-why-he-revoked-boltons-security-clearance/

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by Mik
        #4

        That doesn’t support the interpretation.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          ChatGPT:


          The United States Secret Service provides protection to specific individuals as authorized by law. The primary groups entitled to Secret Service protection are:

          1. President and Vice President
            The sitting President and Vice President of the United States.
            Their immediate families.
          2. Former Presidents
            Former Presidents and their spouses are entitled to lifetime protection unless they decline it.
            Children of former Presidents are protected until they turn 16.
          3. President-elect and Vice President-elect
            Individuals who have been elected to the offices of President and Vice President, along with their families.
          4. Major Presidential and Vice Presidential Candidates
            Candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, along with their spouses, during the campaign period. (Protection is provided at the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security, typically in consultation with an advisory committee.)
          5. Foreign Dignitaries
            Visiting heads of state or government and their spouses.
            Other distinguished foreign visitors and officials attending significant international events in the U.S.
          6. Other Individuals as Designated
            Any individuals as determined by the President or the Secretary of Homeland Security, when necessary for national security.
          7. Events of National Significance
            National Special Security Events (NSSEs), such as the Super Bowl or major political conventions, often include Secret Service involvement for event security.

          Remember when The OGDCM refused SS protection to RFK Jr?

          How does Bolton qualify for any of those, other than, by a stretch, #6?

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Online
            HoraceH Online
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            I think it’s unreasonable for Bolton to expect a lifetime SS detail.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
              #7

              Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

              You were warned.

              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
              • MikM Offline
                MikM Offline
                Mik
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                You’re making the claim.

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

                  HoraceH Online
                  HoraceH Online
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by Horace
                  #9

                  @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                  Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

                  So, you found a situation where Trump can do a reasonable thing, and you can rhetorically frame it as orange man bad. Good for you. Mission accomplished.

                  I am sure we can all agree that Trump doesn't like Bolton. He's made that clear. That doesn't lock Trump into giving Bolton SS details forever, at penalty of being called orange man bad by random TDS sufferers on random internet fora.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                    #10

                    Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                    Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                    You were warned.

                    HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                      Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                      HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                      Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                      Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                      That's a better argument. I don't know that it's apples to apples, but yes one can imagine Bolton losing out on the asking of favors from Trump. Which is to be expected. The fact remains that these SS details are favors, not requirements. Are they norms? You can do that research if you would like.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                        #12

                        Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41. Biden gave secret service protection to two of Trump’s NSA’s because of specific threats from Iran. Are there other examples? I’m sure. Most presidents would do what they needed to to protect former American officials from threats from foreign adversaries, without concern for which party they belonged to or whether or not they kissed his ring.

                        You were warned.

                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41. Biden gave secret service protection to two of Trump’s NSA’s because of specific threats from Iran. Are there other examples? I’m sure. Most presidents would do what they needed to to protect former American officials from threats from foreign adversaries, without concern for which party they belonged to or whether or not they kissed his ring.

                          HoraceH Online
                          HoraceH Online
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                          Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41.

                          That sounds really stupid and to the detriment of the USA. I don't expect Trump would do the same, and that is one reason why people voted for him.

                          I am entirely unconvinced that there is a norm that Bolton should receive lifetime SS detail.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            AFAIK, only Presidents, VPs and their respective spouses receive lifetime details.

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RichR Offline
                              RichR Offline
                              Rich
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              Yeah, but it seems reasonable for high ranking officials that have a legitimate specific threat against them to be able to have one.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Online
                                HoraceH Online
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                Is there an expiration date on "legitimate specific threats"? If a foreign power wanted to force America to spend a trillion dollars a year on the SS, could they put a bounty on the heads of every governmental official in the country? None of this stuff is simple. It is only rhetorically simple.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                                  Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                                  You were warned.

                                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                    Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                                    Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                                    HoraceH Online
                                    HoraceH Online
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                    Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                                    Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                                    I can imagine he would magnanimously continue doing a favor for this O'Brien character, while treating the Bolton situation more coldly and analytically, but still reasonably.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                      #19

                                      I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                                      That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                                      You were warned.

                                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                                        That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                                        HoraceH Online
                                        HoraceH Online
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                        I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                                        That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                                        You're not saying anything different from what I said. You're just using different words. I've admitted that Trump's personal feelings about Bolton played a role.

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                          #21

                                          If the Iranians or some other Islamic fanatic proxy of Tehran do manage to whack Bolton on US soil during the course of this administration, Trump will, in part, have to own it.

                                          Bolton may not be a particularly likeable person, but he is a tremendous asset as an advisor on matters of security and diplomacy with the likes of the Russians, Chinese and Iranians.

                                          But if Trump feels that he can save a buck, what does it matter if something unpleasant happens to Bolton?

                                          Elbows up!

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