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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Bolton

Bolton

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #8

    You’re making the claim.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

      HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by Horace
      #9

      @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

      Do you think Trump took it away after evaluating those? Or because he said mean things about Trump?

      So, you found a situation where Trump can do a reasonable thing, and you can rhetorically frame it as orange man bad. Good for you. Mission accomplished.

      I am sure we can all agree that Trump doesn't like Bolton. He's made that clear. That doesn't lock Trump into giving Bolton SS details forever, at penalty of being called orange man bad by random TDS sufferers on random internet fora.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #10

        Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

        Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

        You were warned.

        HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

          Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #11

          @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

          Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

          Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

          That's a better argument. I don't know that it's apples to apples, but yes one can imagine Bolton losing out on the asking of favors from Trump. Which is to be expected. The fact remains that these SS details are favors, not requirements. Are they norms? You can do that research if you would like.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #12

            Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41. Biden gave secret service protection to two of Trump’s NSA’s because of specific threats from Iran. Are there other examples? I’m sure. Most presidents would do what they needed to to protect former American officials from threats from foreign adversaries, without concern for which party they belonged to or whether or not they kissed his ring.

            You were warned.

            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41. Biden gave secret service protection to two of Trump’s NSA’s because of specific threats from Iran. Are there other examples? I’m sure. Most presidents would do what they needed to to protect former American officials from threats from foreign adversaries, without concern for which party they belonged to or whether or not they kissed his ring.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #13

              @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

              Clinton once rained bombs on Baghdad when it came out that they had an assassination plot against Bush41.

              That sounds really stupid and to the detriment of the USA. I don't expect Trump would do the same, and that is one reason why people voted for him.

              I am entirely unconvinced that there is a norm that Bolton should receive lifetime SS detail.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #14

                AFAIK, only Presidents, VPs and their respective spouses receive lifetime details.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • RichR Online
                  RichR Online
                  Rich
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  Yeah, but it seems reasonable for high ranking officials that have a legitimate specific threat against them to be able to have one.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    Is there an expiration date on "legitimate specific threats"? If a foreign power wanted to force America to spend a trillion dollars a year on the SS, could they put a bounty on the heads of every governmental official in the country? None of this stuff is simple. It is only rhetorically simple.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                      Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                      You were warned.

                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                        Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #18

                        @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                        Do you really think he took protection away from Bolton and not O’Brien due to expirations dates?

                        Bolton is a household name and was a notable anti-Iran hawk since Bush père. No one has heard of O’Brien. Which would be the better win for Iran?

                        I can imagine he would magnanimously continue doing a favor for this O'Brien character, while treating the Bolton situation more coldly and analytically, but still reasonably.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                          #19

                          I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                          That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                          You were warned.

                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                            That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                            HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                            I can’t imagine, 10 years into the Trump era, with everything we know about him, saying ‘the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump took away Bolton’s protection on day one of his presidency for technical reasons, not because Bolton worked for him and went on to write a book telling the world how insane and incompetent he is’.

                            That is its own TDS or ideological capture.

                            You're not saying anything different from what I said. You're just using different words. I've admitted that Trump's personal feelings about Bolton played a role.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #21

                              If the Iranians or some other Islamic fanatic proxy of Tehran do manage to whack Bolton on US soil during the course of this administration, Trump will, in part, have to own it.

                              Bolton may not be a particularly likeable person, but he is a tremendous asset as an advisor on matters of security and diplomacy with the likes of the Russians, Chinese and Iranians.

                              But if Trump feels that he can save a buck, what does it matter if something unpleasant happens to Bolton?

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • taiwan_girlT Online
                                taiwan_girlT Online
                                taiwan_girl
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                                President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                RenaudaR HoraceH JollyJ 3 Replies Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                                  Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                  Robert O’Brien, Trump’s National Security Advisor right after Bolton, was also given secret service protection by Biden for the very same reason. Trump didn’t remove his.

                                  Seems odd to me. Must be my TDS.

                                  Seems the Biden admin did in fact deny O'Brien an SS detail. Care to hand-wring about that? In an objective manner?

                                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/security-detail-for-ex-top-trump-official-denied-by-biden-administration/ar-BB1q6fMI

                                  WASHINGTON—The Biden administration has declined for almost a year to provide security to Robert O’Brien, a former national security adviser in the Trump White House, despite behind-the-scenes pressure from lawmakers and what they describe as continuing threats against his life.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #24

                                    My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                    Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                    You were warned.

                                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                      My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                      Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #25

                                      @jon-nyc said in Bolton:

                                      My mistake was a case of ChatGPt disinformation.

                                      Yes, bad Biden, bad. I wonder if they ever explained why.

                                      Point being, this is not Trump being Trump and omg what will we do. This is normal politics, and it is not fair to frame it any other way.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #26

                                        Some background on costs of SS protection, focusing on Bolton and O'Brien, largely apolitical: (Spoiler, it's multi millions per year per person.)

                                        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/secret-service-paid-over-12-million-for-a-years-protection-of-2-trump-advisers-from-potential-iranian-threats/

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                          President Trump is very vindictive. It is pretty obvious that the removal of secret service and remove of security clearance for Sec. Bolton was due to his dislike of him.

                                          President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                          #27

                                          @taiwan_girl

                                          President Trump currently controls the "sandbox" and if he doesn't want a certain person to be in the sandbox, it is his right to kick them out, weather it makes sense or not.

                                          And for that reason, I would argue that it is his presidential prerogative to kick them out rather than his right.

                                          Elbows up!

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