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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. Hamas attacks Israel

Hamas attacks Israel

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  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #641

    Our dinner guests last night were all Jewish, so the conversation was pretty spirited this subject. Pretty much all pro-Israel, of course, but spirited still. The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    George KG X 2 Replies Last reply
    • MikM Mik

      Our dinner guests last night were all Jewish, so the conversation was pretty spirited this subject. Pretty much all pro-Israel, of course, but spirited still. The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

      George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #642

      @Mik said in Hamas attacks Israel:

      The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

      Annnd?

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      MikM 1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Mik

        Our dinner guests last night were all Jewish, so the conversation was pretty spirited this subject. Pretty much all pro-Israel, of course, but spirited still. The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

        X Offline
        X Offline
        xenon
        wrote on last edited by xenon
        #643

        @Mik said in Hamas attacks Israel:

        Our dinner guests last night were all Jewish, so the conversation was pretty spirited this subject. Pretty much all pro-Israel, of course, but spirited still. The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

        I don’t think a society can shortcut its way to democracy. Groups like Hamas would have no compunction killing political rivals before they can stand for elections.

        You have to really value the individual before you can care about elections.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG George K

          @Mik said in Hamas attacks Israel:

          The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

          Annnd?

          MikM Away
          MikM Away
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #644

          @George-K said in Hamas attacks Israel:

          @Mik said in Hamas attacks Israel:

          The question I asked is, since the Gaza folks voted Hamas in, are there any innocent Gazans?

          Annnd?

          I believe there's a certain culpability that taints them. Which is not to say I approve of Larry's solution which, as Horace said, is the one employed throughout human history. But by the same token, a majority installed Hamas and there they have remained for what, 18 years? That's 18 years of lobbing rockets at the Jewish people and such lethal antics.

          My friends said they would have to think about that. They do not hate the Gazans.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #645

            Without Larry's Solution, you have no solution.

            This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on last edited by Renauda
              #646

              This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

              The problem with that interpretation is that the King of France, Phillip the Fair and Pope Clement V, disbanded and destroyed the Knights Templar in the early 14th Century. I am quite sure you are aware of that fact.

              No, it is very much an unresolved problem that started in the 20th century with the Treaty of Paris in 1919. Subsequent events in the region have grown out of the consequences of what that document facilitated.

              Elbows up!

              JollyJ LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
              • bachophileB Offline
                bachophileB Offline
                bachophile
                wrote on last edited by
                #647

                Well written piece in the Atlantic.

                Discussing the decolonization theory.

                https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/

                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                • bachophileB bachophile

                  Well written piece in the Atlantic.

                  Discussing the decolonization theory.

                  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/

                  RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                  #648

                  @bachophile

                  Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. Montefiore is a very good writer and historian, what he writes is always of strong merit.

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #649

                    Interesting Proposal:

                    "Here’s a proposal - for every day Hamas releases at least 20 hostages AND fires zero missiles at Israel, Israel agrees to a one-day ceasefire. That would allow for at least 10 days of a “ceasefire.” Would Hamas agree to this very modest proposal?"

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • RenaudaR Renauda

                      This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

                      The problem with that interpretation is that the King of France, Phillip the Fair and Pope Clement V, disbanded and destroyed the Knights Templar in the early 14th Century. I am quite sure you are aware of that fact.

                      No, it is very much an unresolved problem that started in the 20th century with the Treaty of Paris in 1919. Subsequent events in the region have grown out of the consequences of what that document facilitated.

                      JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #650

                      @Renauda said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                      This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

                      The problem with that interpretation is that the King of France, Phillip the Fair and Pope Clement V, disbanded and destroyed the Knights Templar in the early 14th Century. I am quite sure you are aware of that fact.

                      No, it is very much an unresolved problem that started in the 20th century with the Treaty of Paris in 1919. Subsequent events in the region have grown out of the consequences of what that document facilitated.

                      Ok, Israel can go in there, fight a conventional modern war and this problem will come roaring back as it always does.

                      You could even create a Palestinian state and it would make little to no difference.

                      Again, applying modern tactics to the 13th century foe.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • RenaudaR Renauda

                        This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

                        The problem with that interpretation is that the King of France, Phillip the Fair and Pope Clement V, disbanded and destroyed the Knights Templar in the early 14th Century. I am quite sure you are aware of that fact.

                        No, it is very much an unresolved problem that started in the 20th century with the Treaty of Paris in 1919. Subsequent events in the region have grown out of the consequences of what that document facilitated.

                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins Dad
                        wrote on last edited by LuFins Dad
                        #651

                        @Renauda said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                        This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

                        The problem with that interpretation is that the King of France, Phillip the Fair and Pope Clement V, disbanded and destroyed the Knights Templar in the early 14th Century. I am quite sure you are aware of that fact.

                        No, it is very much an unresolved problem that started in the 20th century with the Treaty of Paris in 1919. Subsequent events in the region have grown out of the consequences of what that document facilitated.

                        The problem is at least 2 decades older than the treaty. Go back and look at the population numbers from 1880 through 1910. Both the Jewish and the Islamic population exploded far beyond normal reproductive rates for the region… Both groups began to actively populate the region.

                        Of course, the truth of 1890-1948 is irrelevant. What matters is that you now have 4 generations on both sides that have embraced perceptions and “feels”.

                        The Brad

                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                        • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                          @Renauda said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                          This is not a 21st century problem. This is a 13th century problem.

                          The problem with that interpretation is that the King of France, Phillip the Fair and Pope Clement V, disbanded and destroyed the Knights Templar in the early 14th Century. I am quite sure you are aware of that fact.

                          No, it is very much an unresolved problem that started in the 20th century with the Treaty of Paris in 1919. Subsequent events in the region have grown out of the consequences of what that document facilitated.

                          The problem is at least 2 decades older than the treaty. Go back and look at the population numbers from 1880 through 1910. Both the Jewish and the Islamic population exploded far beyond normal reproductive rates for the region… Both groups began to actively populate the region.

                          Of course, the truth of 1890-1948 is irrelevant. What matters is that you now have 4 generations on both sides that have embraced perceptions and “feels”.

                          RenaudaR Offline
                          RenaudaR Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                          #652

                          @LuFins-Dad

                          True enough. However the local Arab Muslims and Christians and the Sephardic Jews who lived there did so in relative peace (and under the Ottoman thumb) until the 1920’s when Palestine fell under the British Mandate. Rather than deal with the rising tensions, the British were preoccupied with keeping the members of the Hashemite dynasty in positions of power throughout greater Syria and Mesopotamia. Tensions and violence between Arabs and Jews increased with the trickle of of European Jews immigrating into Palestine. It reached a boiling point during WWII when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem went into exile and into the welcoming arms of Hitler and the Nazis.

                          So while these pre 1948 events may seem irrelevant today, they set the stage for the 4 generations of perceptions and feels you describe between Arab and Israeli that have continued to fester and periodically explode into flames throughout the Cold War and into the present.

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • bachophileB Offline
                            bachophileB Offline
                            bachophile
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #653

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • bachophileB Offline
                              bachophileB Offline
                              bachophile
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #654

                              DECE2CED-D1D9-4FC2-A7A9-E8A5716ACE0F.jpeg

                              Lots of shit going on

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • bachophileB Offline
                                bachophileB Offline
                                bachophile
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #655

                                Btw IDF rescued a female soldier hostage. Breaking news.

                                bachophileB 1 Reply Last reply
                                • bachophileB bachophile

                                  Btw IDF rescued a female soldier hostage. Breaking news.

                                  bachophileB Offline
                                  bachophileB Offline
                                  bachophile
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #656
                                  This post is deleted!
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • 89th8 Offline
                                    89th8 Offline
                                    89th
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #657

                                    Lots of N/A flights on flightradar these days, LOL. For example, this one...

                                    image.png

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • bachophileB Offline
                                      bachophileB Offline
                                      bachophile
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #658

                                      drones for the most part

                                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        @George-K said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                        Allah'u Akhbar!

                                        taiwan_girlT Online
                                        taiwan_girlT Online
                                        taiwan_girl
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #659

                                        @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                        @George-K said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                        Allah'u Akhbar!

                                        The mother of Shani Louk, an Israeli-German woman thought to have been kidnapped by Hamas gunmen at a music festival in Israel, says her daughter is dead.
                                        Speaking to German media, Ricarda Louk said she had been told by the Israeli military that a DNA sample taken from part of a skull bone proved to be Shani's.
                                        Her body has not yet been found.

                                        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67260093?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

                                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #660

                                          You were warned.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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