ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis

[jon-nyc]

Remember the old days when the politicians would make generic noises about waiting for the investigation etc? Now they straight up lie, reflexively defend their goon, and say she was trying to kill him. She obviously was trying to leave the scene.

[Mik]

@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

No doubt she was in the wrong. In the US you can’t execute a driver to prevent an escape.

This.

[jon-nyc]

It’s unclear to me why she was perpendicular in the road. One thought is she was trying to block them, but she was clearly waving them by. Was she doing a three point turn?

[jon-nyc]

MAGA: “you better obey the police or else they can and should kill you at point blank range"

Also MAGA: "january 6th was pretty chill actually, they were just walking around, what's the big deal??"

[AndyD]

So you think there is no chance the law officer actually thought "this driver is accelerating towards me"?
You'd have had no worries?
Not even after you'd seen your colleague ask the driver to get out and she'd purposely reversed, possibly hurting him?

What will a jury make of it?

[Mik]

In any event, a bullet is not going to stop a car headed toward you in time to be an effective tactic. I normally come down in favor of law enforcement in such situations, but I cannot in this case with the facts at my disposal.

[AndyD]

I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.

It's not a perfect world.

[jon-nyc]

She was also told repeatedly to move. They were shouting Move! Move! Move!

[Renauda]

@bachophile said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

yea but looking at the video he could have shot out the tires easily and stopped the vehicle. not fire an assualt rifle through the driver seat window, looks more like an execution than a traffic stop.

I agree although am not convinced her executer either considered or could have shot the tyres out.

My feeling is that she was terrified when the officer rushed the car and tried open the door. She tried to get away by first reversing, turning her wheels then accelerating slowly forward as the officers surrounded the vehicle. She did not pin it to the floor whether to escape or run anyone down.

In any event the vehicle and driver could have easily been apprehended at later time - you can be assured the license plate number could be traced - via the municipal police services without incident or an action movie car chase beyond perhaps, a spike belt across the road.

[jon-nyc]

@AndyD said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.

It's not a perfect world.

All your points about her doing the wrong thing and acting illegally are valid. It doesn't warrant execution. At least two of the mans shots were fired after the bumper moved beyond him.

[Horace]

This is a situation where FAFO applies, just as it applied to Ashley Babbit. I have no issue with either of the "executioners" facing no legal repercussions. I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.

[AndyD]

@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

@AndyD said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.

It's not a perfect world.

All your points about her doing the wrong thing and acting illegally are valid. It doesn't warrant execution. At least two of the mans shots were fired after the bumper moved beyond him.

This I've now seen on BBC Verify and agree. The first shot was from in front as the driver moved forward and is reasonably defensive.
The next two were through the side window. I hope your FBI prosecute him.

[Renauda]

@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.

Yes of course. It could not be otherwise as I am sure, being the erstwhile and principled libertarian you appear to be, you have your reasons. Nevertheless, I am glad the days of raging fevers here seem to have passed.

[Horace]

@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.

Yes of course. It could not be otherwise as I am sure, being the erstwhile and principled libertarian you appear to be, you have your reasons. Nevertheless, I am glad the days of raging fevers here seem to have passed.

I've probably been guilty of using incendiary language in the past.

[Mik]

Renauda, I agree. She was terrified by masked individuals in unmarked vehicles and inconsistent uniforms approaching her yelling and trying to drag her out of the car. She did exactly what I have told my daughter to do in such a situation - floor it and we'll deal with the consequences later. If she runs over someone, so be it. Now the difference is my daughter would not have been doing what this woman very likely was, trying to interfere with law enforcement activities. She probably did know these were LEOs. But it still did not justify their approach or the consequences. She was pretty clearly not Somalian or Hispanic.

[Horace]

She was there to agitate and block the ability of LEOs to do their job. Explicitly. That is why she was there. Her wife was filming. It was a social media anti-ICE stunt. But ICE has guns, and big SUVs can actually be considered deadly weapons in the heats of moments. A moment she absolutely wanted to be in.

[Renauda]

You’re probably right. We will all hear how many rounds hit her where on her body she was struck. We know one round entered the driver’s side windshield. As @jon-nyc already pointed out the LEO also did appear to fire twice into the back of the escaping vehicle. Would be most embarrassing if the killing shot was to the back of her head..

[Horace]

@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:

You’re probably right. We will all hear how many rounds hit her where on her body she was struck. We know one round entered the driver’s side windshield. As @jon-nyc already pointed out the LEO also did appear to fire twice into the back of the escaping vehicle. Would be most embarrassing if the killing shot was to the back of her head..

Yeah those who want to apply force are probably overrepresented in professions where the use of force is an option. This is part of the FAFO equation.

[Renauda]

@Horace

Indeed. The coroner’s autopsy ought to shed some light on the question.

I still maintain that she should have been dealt with later - her vehicle would have been easily traceable - and through good services the municipal Police who are actually trained to deal with public mischief perps.

[kluurs]

Why would she be directing traffic to move forward if she were trying to impede traffic? I'm still unsure of her intentions. I remember a group of folks were convinced the a police officer was guilty of manslaughter while she said she thought she had a Taser in her hands. The fact that she screamed "Taser, Taser" seemed to me to suggest that she really did confuse the two weapons - as challenging as it was for some to believe that two very different appearing weapons were involved.