ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis
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yea but looking at the video he could have shot out the tires easily and stopped the vehicle. not fire an assualt rifle through the driver seat window, looks more like an execution than a traffic stop
@bachophile said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
yea but looking at the video he could have shot out the tires easily and stopped the vehicle. not fire an assualt rifle through the driver seat window, looks more like an execution than a traffic stop.
I agree although am not convinced her executer either considered or could have shot the tyres out.
My feeling is that she was terrified when the officer rushed the car and tried open the door. She tried to get away by first reversing, turning her wheels then accelerating slowly forward as the officers surrounded the vehicle. She did not pin it to the floor whether to escape or run anyone down.
In any event the vehicle and driver could have easily been apprehended at later time - you can be assured the license plate number could be traced - via the municipal police services without incident or an action movie car chase beyond perhaps, a spike belt across the road.
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I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.It's not a perfect world.
@AndyD said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.It's not a perfect world.
All your points about her doing the wrong thing and acting illegally are valid. It doesn't warrant execution. At least two of the mans shots were fired after the bumper moved beyond him.
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This is a situation where FAFO applies, just as it applied to Ashley Babbit. I have no issue with either of the "executioners" facing no legal repercussions. I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.
Education is extremely important.
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@AndyD said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.It's not a perfect world.
All your points about her doing the wrong thing and acting illegally are valid. It doesn't warrant execution. At least two of the mans shots were fired after the bumper moved beyond him.
@jon-nyc said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@AndyD said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I'd like to think I would have got out of the car as requested.
I'd like to think I would have dived out of the way of the accelerating car and not shot.It's not a perfect world.
All your points about her doing the wrong thing and acting illegally are valid. It doesn't warrant execution. At least two of the mans shots were fired after the bumper moved beyond him.
This I've now seen on BBC Verify and agree. The first shot was from in front as the driver moved forward and is reasonably defensive.
The next two were through the side window. I hope your FBI prosecute him. -
This is a situation where FAFO applies, just as it applied to Ashley Babbit. I have no issue with either of the "executioners" facing no legal repercussions. I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.
Yes of course. It could not be otherwise as I am sure, being the erstwhile and principled libertarian you appear to be, you have your reasons. Nevertheless, I am glad the days of raging fevers here seem to have passed.
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@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.
Yes of course. It could not be otherwise as I am sure, being the erstwhile and principled libertarian you appear to be, you have your reasons. Nevertheless, I am glad the days of raging fevers here seem to have passed.
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
I'm also not the guy to increase the temperature by using such words, except ironically.
Yes of course. It could not be otherwise as I am sure, being the erstwhile and principled libertarian you appear to be, you have your reasons. Nevertheless, I am glad the days of raging fevers here seem to have passed.
I've probably been guilty of using incendiary language in the past.
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Renauda, I agree. She was terrified by masked individuals in unmarked vehicles and inconsistent uniforms approaching her yelling and trying to drag her out of the car. She did exactly what I have told my daughter to do in such a situation - floor it and we'll deal with the consequences later. If she runs over someone, so be it. Now the difference is my daughter would not have been doing what this woman very likely was, trying to interfere with law enforcement activities. She probably did know these were LEOs. But it still did not justify their approach or the consequences. She was pretty clearly not Somalian or Hispanic.
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She was there to agitate and block the ability of LEOs to do their job. Explicitly. That is why she was there. Her wife was filming. It was a social media anti-ICE stunt. But ICE has guns, and big SUVs can actually be considered deadly weapons in the heats of moments. A moment she absolutely wanted to be in.
Education is extremely important.
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You’re probably right. We will all hear how many rounds hit her where on her body she was struck. We know one round entered the driver’s side windshield. As @jon-nyc already pointed out the LEO also did appear to fire twice into the back of the escaping vehicle. Would be most embarrassing if the killing shot was to the back of her head..
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You’re probably right. We will all hear how many rounds hit her where on her body she was struck. We know one round entered the driver’s side windshield. As @jon-nyc already pointed out the LEO also did appear to fire twice into the back of the escaping vehicle. Would be most embarrassing if the killing shot was to the back of her head..
@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
You’re probably right. We will all hear how many rounds hit her where on her body she was struck. We know one round entered the driver’s side windshield. As @jon-nyc already pointed out the LEO also did appear to fire twice into the back of the escaping vehicle. Would be most embarrassing if the killing shot was to the back of her head..
Yeah those who want to apply force are probably overrepresented in professions where the use of force is an option. This is part of the FAFO equation.
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@Renauda said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
You’re probably right. We will all hear how many rounds hit her where on her body she was struck. We know one round entered the driver’s side windshield. As @jon-nyc already pointed out the LEO also did appear to fire twice into the back of the escaping vehicle. Would be most embarrassing if the killing shot was to the back of her head..
Yeah those who want to apply force are probably overrepresented in professions where the use of force is an option. This is part of the FAFO equation.
Indeed. The coroner’s autopsy ought to shed some light on the question.
I still maintain that she should have been dealt with later - her vehicle would have been easily traceable - and through good services the municipal Police who are actually trained to deal with public mischief perps.
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Why would she be directing traffic to move forward if she were trying to impede traffic? I'm still unsure of her intentions. I remember a group of folks were convinced the a police officer was guilty of manslaughter while she said she thought she had a Taser in her hands. The fact that she screamed "Taser, Taser" seemed to me to suggest that she really did confuse the two weapons - as challenging as it was for some to believe that two very different appearing weapons were involved.
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Why would she be directing traffic to move forward if she were trying to impede traffic? I'm still unsure of her intentions. I remember a group of folks were convinced the a police officer was guilty of manslaughter while she said she thought she had a Taser in her hands. The fact that she screamed "Taser, Taser" seemed to me to suggest that she really did confuse the two weapons - as challenging as it was for some to believe that two very different appearing weapons were involved.
Why would she be directing traffic to move forward if she were trying to impede traffic? I'm still unsure of her intentions.
Noam and other Admin minions are certain the deceased was a fanatic left wing domestic terrorist with malign intent.
I think her intent didn’t extend beyond being a nuisance engaged obstructive public mischief. Most certainly nowhere as mischievous or obstructionist as were the January 6 doofuses who, as we have been repeatedly told, were peacefully taking selfies in front of the Capitol building until provoked by law enforcement.
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She was there to agitate and block the ability of LEOs to do their job. Explicitly. That is why she was there. Her wife was filming. It was a social media anti-ICE stunt. But ICE has guns, and big SUVs can actually be considered deadly weapons in the heats of moments. A moment she absolutely wanted to be in.
@Horace said in ICE kills a US citizen in Minneapolis:
She was there to agitate and block the ability of LEOs to do their job. Explicitly. That is why she was there. Her wife was filming. It was a social media anti-ICE stunt. But ICE has guns, and big SUVs can actually be considered deadly weapons in the heats of moments. A moment she absolutely wanted to be in.
Yeah, it was truly a FAFO moment. I still think the officer didn’t expect to discharge his weapon but once he did he committed to the act.
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Another story where both sides get what they want. How nice.
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There are stories now that she had resisted arrest 3-4 times that day, using her vehicle to bar agents, then pulling away when they tried to arrest her. That is a very dangerous game and kind of shakes the whole “she panicked” narrative.
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Stories don’t help. From what I have seen it was in no way justified. And I normally come down on the side of law enforcement in these things. The guy should not have been in front of the vehicle. They are trained not to do that. He drew his weapon before she started moving forward.
