Marriage advice
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Jodi - your story reminds me of a good friend who confessed to a brief abandonment of parental responsibility. She asked a refrigerator repairman if he could watch her two boys while she went to the bathroom. She took a glass of wine into the bathroom for a brief 4 minute vacation.
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@jon-nyc yeah baby steps. Maybe I'll even just say "hey this weekend let's try and clear up the dining room" just to plant the idea instead of coming in and saying "Ok it's time to clear up the dining table."
@jodi Good questions, it's hard to answer without sounding a certain way, but I provide I think more than even my fair share of support. I'm fortunate to work from home, so for the first hour of the day, I normally have 2 of the kids in the basement with me (my wife is getting our oldest ready for the school bus), then I make their breakfast, then I go to work, then after work I come up, and I make their snack, I clean up, and I usually make half the dinners, I usually do the dishes, and the trash. I take care of all outside work, all the bills, probably 80% of the baths, and am the one to get up when a kid gets up at night, mainly because I can fall back asleep so fast (she can't). On the weekend I usually take all 3 kids out for Saturday morning just so she gets a break. She takes care of laundry (not mine), groceries, and of course watching the 2 year old (and 5 year old when he's not in preschool) during the day. I know on paper I do more than my fair share, especially for a working husband, but that is fine, honestly. It's just the inability to bring up the clutter conversation without it being a triggering event. The advice/stories in this thread have helped me a bit, appreciate it.
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Ok, I did not remember that you had 3 kids. (For me, two was so much harder than one, and 3 would have sent me over the edge, lol). I did not know you worked from home, And it does sound like you do your share of the work. So you have a clutter problem (or a problem where clutter is the end result) that needs to be fixed for your own sanity. Not sure she’s going to be able to fix the clutter - the inability to throw anything out was an issue for mom, though she kept hers hidden - she had serious anxiety issues and I didn’t realize how bad they were until I had to go through her things in the basement when she moved into memory care - omg, she saved EVERYTHING, will little notes and lists on stuff, it was like she was afraid to throw it away because it might be important, or she might miss it, or maybe she just needed something she felt that she was in control of. So you are likely going to need help with that - counseling, maybe, if you can convince your wife. We (both Steve and I) have multiple hobbies that require lots of stuff - and his idea of organized is way different than mine, so I’m constantly buying storage bins and rolling carts etc and sorting through the stuff that gets left out to “help” - but mostly it’s to keep myself sane, as I can’t focus when things get too cluttered. If you can’t get her to agree to some sort of counseling (the clutter is probably the end result of other issues?) then can you quietly carve out a space for yourself that isn’t cluttered? I’m sorry - this kind of thing is really hard to deal with, and everything is amplified when the kids are small and are so much work.
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Yeah going from 2 to 3 kids was substantially harder (although 2 was hard, as can be just 1!). There's zero chance she'd ever do counseling, if anything she might admit she knows it's clutter (she says she hates clutter too) but just doesn't think she has the time to clean it up. Of course, the scrolling on the phone and reading her kindle would be evidence otherwise. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, just venting I suppose.
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Will she let you deal with the clutter without it triggering anger - as in go through the toys and the extra clothes and donate the ones that no longer fit, or were stained or whatever, purchase some cute bins or storage shelves with those pull out baskets to store the extra stuff (they really do help). And would you consider going to some sort of marriage/family counseling by yourself to get some help on how to deal with this issue - both the clutter issue and your unhappiness with it? That might help also. My mom could have used some counseling/therapy. But I’m pretty sure she thought she was too smart to need it. My daughter is a child and family therapist - it’s amazingly to talk to her these days (compared to how she was as a teenager!) - especially as we are going through our parents dementias and deaths. Having someone with that training to listen and counsel has been really helpful.
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TNCR is my therapist! We have plenty of storage bins and places, it's just they aren't used or things aren't put back where they belong afterwards. I do tidy-up spaces solo. It's funny to watch the kids say "wow look at all this space!" or discover an old toy like it's the first time, but unfortunately my wife won't ever say thanks, and I get the feeling she resents when I clean up their mess. Meh.
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You do what you have to do to stay sane. I look at it this way - there are things that make me crazy, but the things that I love outweigh those things, so I figure out how to manage the crazy things myself, even if it requires a little more time and effort on my part to feel at peace. The tiny kid stage felt like it lasted forever, but once it’s gone, I wonder where the time went!
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You might start by asking what you might do to help her. You're not going to get through this by thinking you're doing enough already. I understand the feeling, but it's not helpful. It's never 50-50. Whatever you do, avoid making it confrontational. If she does talk, just listen and firmly resist the urge to provide a solution. It is difficult because as guys, that's what we do - we fix stuff. It will feel a bit like patronizing her, but trust me, it's not. It's something I cannot grasp emotionally, but I acknowledge it on an intellectual level.
You seem to be picking up on being indirect.
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You might start by asking what you might do to help her. You're not going to get through this by thinking you're doing enough already. I understand the feeling, but it's not helpful. It's never 50-50. Whatever you do, avoid making it confrontational. If she does talk, just listen and firmly resist the urge to provide a solution. It is difficult because as guys, that's what we do - we fix stuff. It will feel a bit like patronizing her, but trust me, it's not. It's something I cannot grasp emotionally, but I acknowledge it on an intellectual level.
You seem to be picking up on being indirect.
@Mik said in Marriage advice:
If she does talk, just listen and firmly resist the urge to provide a solution. It is difficult because as guys, that's what we do - we fix stuff.
Haha yes isn't that the truth. It's very hard for someone to present a problem and even ask for advice and, well, not give them the solution.
The funny part is she is identical to her mom. They talk every day, same general food preferences, shopping habits, opinions about life, except her mom has become a minimalist lately. Maybe as @jodi says this will smooth out in a few years when all kids are in school...
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Not much to add to what's being said - I agree very much that small steps are much less painful, and also that trying to 'fix' what you see as somebody else's problem like an engineer is not a good way to approach it - that's something that I've been guilty of, and still struggle with.
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions. Counselling can be quite a bit more helpful than you might imagine, but you both have to want to go.
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need. I got rid of an old stereo which was in full working order - they guy was made up that he was getting it for free, and I was made up to free up the space. Full disclosure - our house is a lot messier than we'd like it to be.
