Marriage advice
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TNCR is my therapist! We have plenty of storage bins and places, it's just they aren't used or things aren't put back where they belong afterwards. I do tidy-up spaces solo. It's funny to watch the kids say "wow look at all this space!" or discover an old toy like it's the first time, but unfortunately my wife won't ever say thanks, and I get the feeling she resents when I clean up their mess. Meh.
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You do what you have to do to stay sane. I look at it this way - there are things that make me crazy, but the things that I love outweigh those things, so I figure out how to manage the crazy things myself, even if it requires a little more time and effort on my part to feel at peace. The tiny kid stage felt like it lasted forever, but once it’s gone, I wonder where the time went!
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You might start by asking what you might do to help her. You're not going to get through this by thinking you're doing enough already. I understand the feeling, but it's not helpful. It's never 50-50. Whatever you do, avoid making it confrontational. If she does talk, just listen and firmly resist the urge to provide a solution. It is difficult because as guys, that's what we do - we fix stuff. It will feel a bit like patronizing her, but trust me, it's not. It's something I cannot grasp emotionally, but I acknowledge it on an intellectual level.
You seem to be picking up on being indirect.
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You might start by asking what you might do to help her. You're not going to get through this by thinking you're doing enough already. I understand the feeling, but it's not helpful. It's never 50-50. Whatever you do, avoid making it confrontational. If she does talk, just listen and firmly resist the urge to provide a solution. It is difficult because as guys, that's what we do - we fix stuff. It will feel a bit like patronizing her, but trust me, it's not. It's something I cannot grasp emotionally, but I acknowledge it on an intellectual level.
You seem to be picking up on being indirect.
@Mik said in Marriage advice:
If she does talk, just listen and firmly resist the urge to provide a solution. It is difficult because as guys, that's what we do - we fix stuff.
Haha yes isn't that the truth. It's very hard for someone to present a problem and even ask for advice and, well, not give them the solution.
The funny part is she is identical to her mom. They talk every day, same general food preferences, shopping habits, opinions about life, except her mom has become a minimalist lately. Maybe as @jodi says this will smooth out in a few years when all kids are in school...
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Not much to add to what's being said - I agree very much that small steps are much less painful, and also that trying to 'fix' what you see as somebody else's problem like an engineer is not a good way to approach it - that's something that I've been guilty of, and still struggle with.
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions. Counselling can be quite a bit more helpful than you might imagine, but you both have to want to go.
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need. I got rid of an old stereo which was in full working order - they guy was made up that he was getting it for free, and I was made up to free up the space. Full disclosure - our house is a lot messier than we'd like it to be.
I was only joking
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only thing i cant resist buying is books. other than that, im such a non shopper. ill wear or use the same item until it disentegrates. and its not from frugalness, its just...the way I’m am.
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Not much to add to what's being said - I agree very much that small steps are much less painful, and also that trying to 'fix' what you see as somebody else's problem like an engineer is not a good way to approach it - that's something that I've been guilty of, and still struggle with.
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions. Counselling can be quite a bit more helpful than you might imagine, but you both have to want to go.
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need. I got rid of an old stereo which was in full working order - they guy was made up that he was getting it for free, and I was made up to free up the space. Full disclosure - our house is a lot messier than we'd like it to be.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Marriage advice:
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions.
It's weird, if you twisted my arm I'd say I do much more than 50% but truly and sincerely I don't mind. Someone once said marriage should be 60/40 where each partner should try to give the 60%, so that's how I view it. I'd do 100% as long as she's happy, that's what I care about. With this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions. ChatGPT told me to address it more as "this clutter is making me stressed" vs "your clutter needs to be fixed". Baby steps....
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need.
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Marriage advice:
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions.
It's weird, if you twisted my arm I'd say I do much more than 50% but truly and sincerely I don't mind. Someone once said marriage should be 60/40 where each partner should try to give the 60%, so that's how I view it. I'd do 100% as long as she's happy, that's what I care about. With this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions. ChatGPT told me to address it more as "this clutter is making me stressed" vs "your clutter needs to be fixed". Baby steps....
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need.
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
@89th said in Marriage advice:
this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions.I do think you need to tell her the clutter is stressing you out, but you have to figure out how to do it without the judgement (I’m stressed by the clutter and it’s your fault). Based on your words above - I get extremely irritated when Steve occasionally comments on the amount of time I spend doing (whatever it is I’m doing to decompress) if I think he’s making a judgement comment on my choices and thinks I should be doing something else. With little kids you really do not feel like any of your time is your own. So even if you think she’s got time, she may not feel like it. Her idea of how much time she has may never match yours, and that may always cause you stress.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Marriage advice:
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions.
It's weird, if you twisted my arm I'd say I do much more than 50% but truly and sincerely I don't mind. Someone once said marriage should be 60/40 where each partner should try to give the 60%, so that's how I view it. I'd do 100% as long as she's happy, that's what I care about. With this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions. ChatGPT told me to address it more as "this clutter is making me stressed" vs "your clutter needs to be fixed". Baby steps....
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need.
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
@89th said in Marriage advice:
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
We've been carefully keeping quantities of paperwork from kindergarten and elementary school in boxes in the downstairs garage for reasons that aren't fully clear to me.
Apparently, mice love to recycle even more than we do, and made some of it into affordable housing.
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@89th - we're in a very similar situation. All caveats about how great a person and mom my wife is (all true), she has a consumption issue. I think it's much easier to have this issue than it has been in the past.
Our houses are bigger, we have Amazon, impulse buying has moved from the aisle to your bedroom.
Luckily our common living spaces are tidy, and she hates a messy kitchen. Outside of that (our bedroom, the playroom, kids bedrooms) - not so much.
Lots of good advice in this thread, but change is hard. I've worked my wife to the point of recognizing that it's better if every item in the house has a specific place to live, and not only space for itself, but breathing space so that it can actually be found and used.
That's step 1, I guess. But changing habits is hard. We're on that step right now. She has to want to do it, as Jodi said you typically can't berate a person into doing that.
It doesn't help that I've become sort of a minimalist as I've gotten older. We're pretty far from each other on this topic.
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Yeah, it's funny how we have similar lives in many respects these days, age, house issues, kids, 1st world problems... When we got our kitchen counters redone a few months ago there was a period where she wanted nothing at all on the counters, which was refreshing. But that phase has moved on...
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Yeah, I can relate. While we don't have kids here anymore, Janet will sometimes get the urge to buy something she likes when we are in the position of shedding 32 years of accumulated stuff. My approach is everything that comes in must be offset by at LEAST one similar item that goes out. It's not that we're really cluttered, we just don't need all this stuff and it is an albatross around your life's neck.
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@89th - we're in a very similar situation. All caveats about how great a person and mom my wife is (all true), she has a consumption issue. I think it's much easier to have this issue than it has been in the past.
Our houses are bigger, we have Amazon, impulse buying has moved from the aisle to your bedroom.
Luckily our common living spaces are tidy, and she hates a messy kitchen. Outside of that (our bedroom, the playroom, kids bedrooms) - not so much.
Lots of good advice in this thread, but change is hard. I've worked my wife to the point of recognizing that it's better if every item in the house has a specific place to live, and not only space for itself, but breathing space so that it can actually be found and used.
That's step 1, I guess. But changing habits is hard. We're on that step right now. She has to want to do it, as Jodi said you typically can't berate a person into doing that.
It doesn't help that I've become sort of a minimalist as I've gotten older. We're pretty far from each other on this topic.
@xenon said in Marriage advice:
Lots of good advice in this thread, but change is hard. I've worked my wife to the point of recognizing that it's better if every item in the house has a specific place to live, and not only space for itself, but breathing space so that it can actually be found and used.
This is the key for me. I am a clear plastic storage box - label and categorize - and every shelf or set of shelves has an activity category - camping, auto, tools, paint supplies, etc. Stuff HAS to be in the area it goes in, otherwise I will never find it again. I think the organizing thing is probably related to an OCD (but also ADHD) thing in my personality. I tend to get everything out at once, work on multiple projects, and then I have a meltdown moment and spend a day getting everything tucked back into the assigned spots so I can start back in on the projects with less anxiety.
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Ugh. Happy wife, happy life… Keep chanting it…
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The bigger issue here is the disorganization and the clutter. Was her parent's home cluttered?
The Brad
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@89th .. Your kids’ areas look just as messy as ours did 25 yrs ago! I remember feeling relieved seeing similar homes, thinking this clutter must be a developmental stage of parenthood. And prior to being parents, we were very tidy and organized.
Lots of good wisdom shared from people here.
I won’t dive into my grown kid’s issues with ADHD, collecting, clutter, except to say, yup, very stressful. And yes indeed, clutter hurts relationships.
If I can offer anything to you @89th :
1). Try to chat up safety with your wife whenever possible. Especially with bathroom, laundry and kitchen areas. We had a kid and 3 cats climbing bookcases, counters, cupboards, appliances, squeezing into the weirdest spaces. My eyes couldn’t be everywhere all at once to intervene. Clutter on counters and in cupboards create real danger risks for fires, spills, tipovers, floods, electrical accidents, all that. As a pediatric nurse, I saw plenty. Please eliminate that clutter. Make firm safety rules for these areas. Safety is a real good reason for decluttering.
2). Do not succumb to renting storage lockers to relocate clutter.
3). Do not procrastinate long with decisions to sell or donate stuff. Procrastination compounds stress while clutter continues to build.
4) Keep tossing that toy crap out! Then expand covert maneuvers with other small stuff. Dirty little secrets. I love that. Continue and you’ll be miles ahead of others.
5) Of bigger household crap .. just ask someday. I’ve an entire repertoire of tips and strategies. A few dirty secrets too.
6) Of elders .. Are they a gift giving source of too many toys and kid stuff? Are they attempting to off-load heirlooms onto you yet? If so, can you and your wife agree to talk to them of it?
7) Also of elders .. avoid, if you can, being an executor or sucked in with their downsizing junk removal. It sucks so much from your soul, and especially your valuable time.
8. Remind yourself .. The kids’ clutter is different from my wife’s clutter. Yes, it’s all chaos. Yes, it’s all gross. But ask yourself who generates what clutter and why? Clean up kid made clutter sure. Have them see you do it & have them help you with it as they grow. Make no excuses for mom’s problem to anyone.
9) A safe room free of clutter, like your office, is a real good thing. Is it possible for your wife to have a safe room too? Even if her clutter migrates there? There are benefits for you not seeing her stuff. Think about it.
10) Don’t become like some parents who escape with booze to bitch alongside other parents. That’s not therapy. That’s just another problem.I hope some of this is helpful to you @89th.
