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  3. Helicopter Crash in DC

Helicopter Crash in DC

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  • H Offline
    H Offline
    Horace
    wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 19:52 last edited by
    #148

    The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

    Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

    Education is extremely important.

    J 1 Reply Last reply 31 Jan 2025, 23:11
    • 8 89th
      31 Jan 2025, 19:03

      @Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

      @LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

      That heli traffic is there for a reason.

      Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.

      I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.

      I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.

      Yeah gotta love the surface to air missile launchers off of Clara Barton parkway, Andrew AFB, etc. Fun to see...somewhat in plain sight. Part of Operation Noble Eagle I believe.

      This is a view from the road (I used to drive by every day). See something...?

      2a33670a-882f-4839-8ef8-cd608eeaba6c-image.png

      C Offline
      C Offline
      Copper
      wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 20:05 last edited by
      #149

      @89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

      See something...?

      Aimed at commercial flights loaded with innocent bystanders.

      Bystanders flying over a densely populated area.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • 8 Offline
        8 Offline
        89th
        wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 22:46 last edited by
        #150

        This was a day before the crash. Notice how “normalized” the helicopter CA (collision alert) are for the inbound planes. I’d imagine it’s been this way for a while and only due to alert helo pilots have they avoided crashing into a plane. There will be major helicopter route standards changed in DC I’m sure of it.

        Link to video

        1 Reply Last reply
        • H Horace
          31 Jan 2025, 19:52

          The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

          Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

          J Offline
          J Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 23:11 last edited by
          #151

          @Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

          The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

          Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

          Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          H 8 2 Replies Last reply 31 Jan 2025, 23:45
          • J Jolly
            31 Jan 2025, 23:11

            @Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

            The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

            Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

            Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?

            H Offline
            H Offline
            Horace
            wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 23:45 last edited by
            #152

            @Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

            @Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

            The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

            Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

            Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?

            VDH has sufficient respect for Trump that he assumes Trump has some inside information to guide his judgment in blaming DEI. I hope VDH is right. He also notes that Trump risks being a blatant demagogue if he's wrong about that. I guess VDH is one person who might actually lose some respect for Trump over this, if DEI has nothing to do with it.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • G Offline
              G Offline
              George K
              wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 01:54 last edited by
              #153

              Sec Pete's failings:

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • C Offline
                C Offline
                Copper
                wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 01:58 last edited by
                #154

                How could Mr. Biden have missed this?

                J 1 Reply Last reply 1 Feb 2025, 02:04
                • C Copper
                  1 Feb 2025, 01:58

                  How could Mr. Biden have missed this?

                  J Offline
                  J Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:04 last edited by
                  #155

                  @Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                  How could Mr. Biden have missed this?

                  In 2023, Biden was already compromised.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  G 1 Reply Last reply 1 Feb 2025, 02:06
                  • J Jolly
                    1 Feb 2025, 02:04

                    @Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                    How could Mr. Biden have missed this?

                    In 2023, Biden was already compromised.

                    G Offline
                    G Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:06 last edited by
                    #156

                    @Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                    In 2023, Biden was already compromised.

                    @Jolly you misspelled "asleep".

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 1 Feb 2025, 02:09
                    • G George K
                      1 Feb 2025, 02:06

                      @Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                      In 2023, Biden was already compromised.

                      @Jolly you misspelled "asleep".

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:09 last edited by
                      #157

                      @George-K said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                      @Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                      In 2023, Biden was already compromised.

                      @Jolly you misspelled "asleep".

                      You know, I'm not nearly as disappointed in Biden as I am the people around him. They placed power over doing what was right for the country.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • J Jolly
                        31 Jan 2025, 23:11

                        @Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                        The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

                        Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

                        Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?

                        8 Offline
                        8 Offline
                        89th
                        wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by
                        #158

                        @Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                        @Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                        The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

                        Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.

                        Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?

                        Is it a boomerang cannonball? Here’s something during Trump’s watch in 2019.

                        https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • 8 Offline
                          8 Offline
                          89th
                          wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by
                          #159

                          Obama did it too in 2013 like Trump in 2019.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • J Offline
                            J Offline
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:59 last edited by
                            #160

                            I posted the details of that yesterday in this thread.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • C Offline
                              C Offline
                              Copper
                              wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 15:30 last edited by Copper 2 Jan 2025, 15:34
                              #161

                              If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.

                              In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.

                              Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:

                              Events

                              Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
                              Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
                              Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
                              When Detected : In-flight
                              Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive Action

                              Narrative: 1

                              While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.

                              Synopsis

                              Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.

                              If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:

                              https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx

                              M 1 Reply Last reply 1 Feb 2025, 17:10
                              • L Offline
                                L Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 15:41 last edited by
                                #162

                                I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.

                                I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.

                                The Brad

                                8 1 Reply Last reply 1 Feb 2025, 17:42
                                • C Copper
                                  1 Feb 2025, 15:30

                                  If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.

                                  In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.

                                  Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:

                                  Events

                                  Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
                                  Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
                                  Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
                                  When Detected : In-flight
                                  Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive Action

                                  Narrative: 1

                                  While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.

                                  Synopsis

                                  Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.

                                  If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:

                                  https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx

                                  M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  mark
                                  wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 17:10 last edited by
                                  #163

                                  @Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                                  If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.

                                  In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.

                                  Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:

                                  Events

                                  Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
                                  Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
                                  Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
                                  When Detected : In-flight
                                  Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive Action

                                  Narrative: 1

                                  While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.

                                  Synopsis

                                  Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.

                                  If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:

                                  https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx

                                  Doesn't such a report immediately start an investigation and possible action for remedy? This sounds like complacency and indifference at the very least, contributing to what ultimately happened.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • L LuFins Dad
                                    1 Feb 2025, 15:41

                                    I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.

                                    I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.

                                    8 Offline
                                    8 Offline
                                    89th
                                    wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 17:42 last edited by
                                    #164

                                    @LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                                    I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.

                                    I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.

                                    Haha maybe. If that happens I’ll switch to another company that allows remote work. I’m in a fortunate spot where there’s more demand than supply for my specific job and clearance level so there’s always an open spot to fill somewhere.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • H Offline
                                      H Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:18 last edited by
                                      #165

                                      The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.

                                      Link to video

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      L 1 Reply Last reply 1 Feb 2025, 22:28
                                      • H Horace
                                        1 Feb 2025, 22:18

                                        The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.

                                        Link to video

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        LuFins Dad
                                        wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:28 last edited by
                                        #166

                                        @Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:

                                        The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.

                                        Link to video

                                        Since we know that it was a female, that tracks.

                                        The Brad

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:32 last edited by jon-nyc 2 Jan 2025, 22:35
                                          #167

                                          The family released her name with her resume, maybe hoping that it would help prevent rabid idiots from seeing she’s a woman and screaming DEI!!!

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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