Helicopter Crash in DC
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@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 23:45 last edited by@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
VDH has sufficient respect for Trump that he assumes Trump has some inside information to guide his judgment in blaming DEI. I hope VDH is right. He also notes that Trump risks being a blatant demagogue if he's wrong about that. I guess VDH is one person who might actually lose some respect for Trump over this, if DEI has nothing to do with it.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 01:54 last edited by
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 01:58 last edited by
How could Mr. Biden have missed this?
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:04 last edited by
@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
How could Mr. Biden have missed this?
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
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@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
How could Mr. Biden have missed this?
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:06 last edited by@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
@Jolly you misspelled "asleep".
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@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
@Jolly you misspelled "asleep".
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:09 last edited by@George-K said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
@Jolly you misspelled "asleep".
You know, I'm not nearly as disappointed in Biden as I am the people around him. They placed power over doing what was right for the country.
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@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
Is it a boomerang cannonball? Here’s something during Trump’s watch in 2019.
https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by
Obama did it too in 2013 like Trump in 2019.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:59 last edited by
I posted the details of that yesterday in this thread.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 15:30 last edited by Copper 2 Jan 2025, 15:34
If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 15:41 last edited by
I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
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If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 17:10 last edited by@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
Doesn't such a report immediately start an investigation and possible action for remedy? This sounds like complacency and indifference at the very least, contributing to what ultimately happened.
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I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 17:42 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
Haha maybe. If that happens I’ll switch to another company that allows remote work. I’m in a fortunate spot where there’s more demand than supply for my specific job and clearance level so there’s always an open spot to fill somewhere.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:18 last edited by
The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.
Link to video -
The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.
Link to videowrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:28 last edited by@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The army is not releasing the name of one of the three occupants of the heli, at the request of the family. Interesting the family has that much power over what might be considered public information. I gather the unnamed one is the pilot.
Link to videoSince we know that it was a female, that tracks.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:32 last edited by jon-nyc 2 Jan 2025, 22:35
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:47 last edited by
I am struggling to not make a misogynistic joke, here.
She seems qualified, but it also seems like most of her work has been more social at the WH in recent weeks. It looks (from the outside) like this is a soldier that did a lot of flying earlier in her career, but has been more of a politico/military ambassador at the WH in recent years, and this was a flight to just make sure that her certifications stayed active.
Still, to this completely unqualified observer, it still feels like a communications failure in a very tough situation from the Tower. And as much as you might hate to admit it, based on all of the lawsuits, DEI hiring practices have played a part, and yes, that includes from 2017-2021
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:52 last edited by
There were 6 people who could have prevented the collision.
ATC, 2 jet pilots, 2 helicopter pilots and the helicopter observer.
Communications failure may turn out to be an understatement.
Again, it is still early in the investigation, there could have been some problem we don't know about yet.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 22:54 last edited by
Okay, I’ll say it… She just freaking needed to parallel park…
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 23:11 last edited by
Always makes me pause just a tad more once you put real faces and names to the victims. I haven’t read the details, was she actually flying? The voice who said they have visual separation from the CRJ was male.
There are some good examples on YouTube of what the helicopter and plane pilots actually saw, which is to say both had blinds spots (more for the plane) at the angles they hit, it really seems as simple as the helo was looking at the wrong jet. And I’d imagine this will result in much stricter helicopter path restrictions as well as stricter standards from the tower other than “see that plane? Yeah go behind it”, which has worked for decades…until it didn’t.