Helicopter Crash in DC
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@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
I'm not familiar with the area, but a heliport is not as expensive a fix as expanding an airport. There's no place to move the helicopter traffic?
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 17:06 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 19:03 last edited by@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
Yeah gotta love the surface to air missile launchers off of Clara Barton parkway, Andrew AFB, etc. Fun to see...somewhat in plain sight. Part of Operation Noble Eagle I believe.
This is a view from the road (I used to drive by every day). See something...?
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wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 19:48 last edited by
That’s interesting.
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wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 19:52 last edited by
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
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@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
Yeah gotta love the surface to air missile launchers off of Clara Barton parkway, Andrew AFB, etc. Fun to see...somewhat in plain sight. Part of Operation Noble Eagle I believe.
This is a view from the road (I used to drive by every day). See something...?
wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 20:05 last edited by@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
See something...?
Aimed at commercial flights loaded with innocent bystanders.
Bystanders flying over a densely populated area.
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wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 22:46 last edited by
This was a day before the crash. Notice how “normalized” the helicopter CA (collision alert) are for the inbound planes. I’d imagine it’s been this way for a while and only due to alert helo pilots have they avoided crashing into a plane. There will be major helicopter route standards changed in DC I’m sure of it.
Link to video -
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 23:11 last edited by@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
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@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
wrote on 31 Jan 2025, 23:45 last edited by@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
VDH has sufficient respect for Trump that he assumes Trump has some inside information to guide his judgment in blaming DEI. I hope VDH is right. He also notes that Trump risks being a blatant demagogue if he's wrong about that. I guess VDH is one person who might actually lose some respect for Trump over this, if DEI has nothing to do with it.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 01:54 last edited by
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 01:58 last edited by
How could Mr. Biden have missed this?
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:04 last edited by
@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
How could Mr. Biden have missed this?
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
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@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
How could Mr. Biden have missed this?
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:06 last edited by@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
@Jolly you misspelled "asleep".
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@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
@Jolly you misspelled "asleep".
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 02:09 last edited by@George-K said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2023, Biden was already compromised.
@Jolly you misspelled "asleep".
You know, I'm not nearly as disappointed in Biden as I am the people around him. They placed power over doing what was right for the country.
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@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Horace said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.
Anybody who claims to have trouble believing that, is lying. Or really ignorant.
Granted, Trump is a loose cannon, but what if the cannon was pointing in the right direction?
Is it a boomerang cannonball? Here’s something during Trump’s watch in 2019.
https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-provides-aviation-careers-people-disabilities
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by
Obama did it too in 2013 like Trump in 2019.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 05:59 last edited by
I posted the details of that yesterday in this thread.
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 15:30 last edited by Copper 2 Jan 2025, 15:34
If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
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wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 15:41 last edited by
I am thinking that due to the airspace restrictions around DC and the military flights, one part of the answer is going to need to be ATC oversight even on visual approaches. Which also means more staffing.
I also think commercial traffic can and should be reduced at DCA. Sorry, @89th . On the plus side, I’m sure that your company’s next contract will require full time in-office, so you won’t be flying in quite as often.
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If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
wrote on 1 Feb 2025, 17:10 last edited by@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
If you have any type of safety event while flying you are encouraged to file an ASRS report with NASA. I have filed a number of these reports.
In order to encourage pilots to file these reports, they are anonymous.
Here is one from just a few days before the crash, it sounds familiar:
Events
Anomaly.ATC Issue : All Types
Anomaly.Conflict : NMAC
Detector.Automation : Aircraft RA
When Detected : In-flight
Result.Flight Crew : Took Evasive ActionNarrative: 1
While we were flying the river visual to Runway 19 into DCA we received a TCAS alert. We were around SETOC or just past it and fully configured to land. There was, what I could only guess as I never saw it, a helicopter about 300ft below us. The TCAS showed it climbing but at a very very slow rate as it never showed closer than 300ft to us. When we flew over top of it, we got a “monitor vertical speed alert from TCAS which we then pitched into the green arc on the VSI which was -300fpm or greater. After we received the “clear of conflict” the FO corrected and got back on glide path. I assessed that we were still within stable approach criteria and we continued the approach and landed in DCA without further issue. We never received a warning of the traffic from ATC so we were unaware it was there. Suggestion: Need to have better separation for DCA traffic on the river visual to the helicopter traffic that is flying up and down the river. Maybe by timing the separation of when we began the approach to where that traffic will be when we cross overhead.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported a NMAC with a helicopter while on visual approach. Flight crew responded to the TCAS alert and continued the approach.
If you want to search the ASRS database you can go here:
https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Filter.aspx
Doesn't such a report immediately start an investigation and possible action for remedy? This sounds like complacency and indifference at the very least, contributing to what ultimately happened.